Big Turbo

[90AWDEclipse]

Hey guys I went to the salvage yard this weekend and pulled a turbo off of a International semi truck. I was wondering if this turbo is unrealistic for my setup.

9:1 wisecos with eagle rods
All ARP heard wear
All supporting fuel and tunning mods
BC 280 cams
Manely Springs and retainers
JMF intake manifold

This is what im planning on building, im in the process now, money permitting, but i was thinking i could use a decently sized turbo because i'll be reving to around 9k. But is the turbo still to big? The a/r on the compressor side is 1.1 but there is nothing on the exhaust side. Shaft play is actually not that bad, the motor had a stamp that said reman 2005, so im assuming that the turbo was also refreshed.

 

[Zack Huffman]

Need more info. Compressor and turbine Inducer/Exducer diameters, manufacturer, model number, compressor map, etc.

I'm seriously doubting this will work. Do you have any idea what displacement that Semi's engine was? Even though it probably hit boost immediately on that Semi, I bet you're looking at extremely high spool-up rpms, that's if you even can. Have you looked at the pre 02' Dodge Cummins Holset turbos?

 

[1992awdlaser]

Need more information. Why did you make two thread about the same thing?

 

[90AWDEclipse]

Well thats the reason I put this thread up, so I could see if anyone has used something like this and has more information. I have some pictures of the turbo below. O and i didnt mean to put it on the newbie thread but i didnt delete it.

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[1992awdlaser]

Here is a link to that turbo. TurboByGarrett.com - Catalog

It is deffinately not too big for a properly built car. What kind of fuel system do you have? And what to tune with?

I couldn't find any information about what kind of lb/min it will flow or max horsepower rating.

 

[90AWDEclipse]

Well right now i have 660cc injectors and a walbro 255, and im going to go with greddy emanage, i have a friend who has it and will give me a great deal.

 

[Zack Huffman]

Here is a link to that turbo. TurboByGarrett.com - Catalog

It is deffinately not too big for a properly built car. What kind of fuel system do you have? And what to tune with?

I couldn't find any information about what kind of lb/min it will flow or max horsepower rating.

Are you sure that's the same turbo? The one you linked has an A/R of 1.00, the one the OP has is a 1.10 A/R.

If it is the same, then I agree it is possible to use, however it is an absolute monster... the compressor map shows over 72lbs/min max flow. I'm sure it won't spool too quickly though. Good luck on using it, I'll be pretty interested to see what you are able to come up with.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Get bigger injectors before putting the turbo on.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Are you sure that's the same turbo? The one you linked has an A/R of 1.00, the one the OP has is a 1.10 A/R.

If it is the same, then I agree it is possible to use, however it is an absolute monster... the compressor map shows over 72lbs/min max flow. I'm sure it won't spool too quickly though. Good luck on using it, I'll be pretty interested to see what you are able to come up with

Positive it is the same turbo. I searched the garrett part number on google and came up with a few sites that listed it is the gtp38r.

I don't know how to read compressor maps. I guess I should try to learn so I can tell how much a turbo can flow.

 

[turboglenn]

You're going to hate yourself if you do some how manage to get something that large from a diesel into your eclipse. You're best bet would be to see if a turbo place like majestic or turbonetics would take it as a core trade and give you a couple hundred at most towards something that's built to work with an engine of your displacement. There's huge differences in the exhaust side of turbos that mate them to their respective engine. And that exhaust side is not going to spool that thing to any decent boost level on a motor like the 4g63 untill the very top RPM's. I'm not trying to be rude, i just doubt you'd see any repectable boost levels before redlining your motor.

I know all too many people who have come to me with similar turbos pulled from dump trucks and farm equipment with the same hopes as you. One guy (T.J. who was our local mitsu parts dept manager) did get one of them mounted up, only to not make any power because there wasn't enough exhaust energy to spool it. So take it for what it's worth.

I'm not saying it "wont' work" i just think you'll be very dissapointed if it's anything other than a dedicated track car, and even then it would probably need some laughing gas to help with lag.

 

[dsm-onster]

This is a twin scroll turbine housing. A proper header will make 1.1 a/r feel like .82 a/r. It IS a big t4 housing, though . . . Regardless, the turbine housing can be exchanged for a smaller one. No need to scrap a good turbo because of a housing.

Pull the turbine housing and measure the major and minor diameters of the turbine wheel. The turbine blades appear to have a fairly shallow slope. It may spool well enough for your goals. We need to know what turbine that is and your goals.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Id be interested in seeing his results with it .

 

[turboglenn]

This is a twin scroll turbine housing. A proper header will make 1.1 a/r feel like .82 a/r. It IS a big t4 housing, though . . . Regardless, the turbine housing can be exchanged for a smaller one. No need to scrap a good turbo because of a housing.

Pull the turbine housing and measure the major and minor diameters of the turbine wheel. The turbine blades appear to have a fairly shallow slope. It may spool well enough for your goals. We need to know what turbine that is and your goals.

True, the reason i suggested trading it in was to get something similar with a properly sized turbine and housing. The turbo could be sent in, have a different turbine and housing put on it and then could very well be usable. I just feel that the turbine and housing assembly meant for a diesel that has tons of exhaus energy would be a bit too large to be enjoyable on a 4g63 in the formation that turbo is right now.

 

[97GSTAUTO]

I dont believe we could even spool such a turbo. That turbo is made for a 7.3l diesel engine. I wouldnt believe a 2.0 or even a 2.4l 4 can even spool it. If we could, when we actually see anything that resembles boost its time to shift. I could be wrong though.

 

[aero_sallee]

I dont believe we could even spool such a turbo. That turbo is made for a 7.3l diesel engine. I wouldnt believe a 2.0 or even a 2.4l 4 can even spool it. If we could, when we actually see anything that resembles boost its time to shift. I could be wrong though.

An HX40 comes off of a 8.3l diesel and they spool just fine with the right size turbine housing.

 

[90AWDEclipse]

Where can I buy a different turbine housing for this turbo?

 

[1992awdlaser]

Where can I buy a different turbine housing for this turbo?

I would call Garrett since they make the turbo.

 

[90AWDEclipse]

Pull the turbine housing and measure the major and minor diameters of the turbine wheel. The turbine blades appear to have a fairly shallow slope. It may spool well enough for your goals. We need to know what turbine that is and your goals.

What exactly am I measuring and do I need a micrometer? I have both the turbine housing and the compressor housing off.

 

[Rob10_99]

Yes micrometer is what its called, are there an even number of blades? (im lazy to count)
If there is then your measurements will be exact and easy.

 

[90AWDEclipse]

Yes there is 10 blades, what do you mean by major and minor diameters?

 

[dsm-onster]

True, the reason i suggested trading it in was to get something similar with a properly sized turbine and housing. The turbo could be sent in, have a different turbine and housing put on it and then could very well be usable. I just feel that the turbine and housing assembly meant for a diesel that has tons of exhaus energy would be a bit too large to be enjoyable on a 4g63 in the formation that turbo is right now.

I meant just housing. Which can be swapped with a wrench. aero_sallee is right, based on results of the hx40. The very, very large hx40 in the "diesel community" has a turbine wheel between a p-trim turbine wheel and gt40 turbine in diameters but spools faster than a gt35R. The diesel has more smoke, but less energy in the gas. The diesel community also wants full boost at 40+ psi by 2000rpms. No matter what displacement you have, a turbine has to be quick spooling for that. Diesel turbos offer great flow considering their spool speed .

Still, the OP will need 272s and larger injectors to plunge into the potential of this turbo based on the posted compressor map. The maps shows decent efficiency at 30 psi and 55 lbs/min. It shows over 20 psi at under 30 lbs/min before crossing the surge line. So this turbo compressor is very versatile, probably due to MWE.




90AWDEclipse, when you pull the turbine housing (be carefull not to bend a turbine blade), there will be a larger diameter close to the turbine wheel base (closer to the compressor side) and there will be smaller diameter close to the the turbine exit (closer to the downpipe). See Stealth 316 - Turbo Upgrade Guide to picture what I'm saying. Measure and give us the inducer and exducer diameters. As mentioned, measure the adjacent turbine blades: the crossing distances between blade 1 and blade 6 counting from any blade.

If you can take a pic of the wheel at the side to see the pitch (slope) of the blades that would also be beneficial.

 

[90AWDEclipse]

Ok guys im going to take the turbo into my shop tommorow so I can use their micrometer, and i'll take a picture of the blades pitch.

 

[turboglenn]

I meant just housing. Which can be swapped with a wrench. aero_sallee is right, based on results of the hx40. The very, very large hx40 in the "diesel community" has a turbine wheel between a p-trim turbine wheel and gt40 turbine in diameters but spools faster than a gt35R. The diesel has more smoke, but less energy in the gas. The diesel community also wants full boost at 40+ psi by 2000rpms. No matter what displacement you have, a turbine has to be quick spooling for that. Diesel turbos offer great flow considering their spool speed .

Still, the OP will need 272s and larger injectors to plunge into the potential of this turbo based on the posted compressor map. The maps shows decent efficiency at 30 psi and 55 lbs/min. It shows over 20 psi at under 30 lbs/min before crossing the surge line. So this turbo compressor is very versatile, probably due to MWE.

Hmmm... i had no clue about that, good information thanks!

 

[90AWDEclipse]

Ok here are the numbers. O and I put a picture of the blades later im at school right now.

Turbine -
Exducer - 2.761 (70.12mm)
Inducer - 3.080 (78.23mm)

Compresser -
Inducer - 2.321 (58.95mm)
Exducer - 3.138 (79.70mm)

The compresser only has 9 fins so it was a little wierd to measure
And all I did to convert the numbers to mm was multiply them by 25.4

 

[Zack Huffman]

Sounds fairly close to a GT4088R.
GT4088R = 54 trim, this turbo = 55 trim
77mm turbine inducer vs 78mm on this one

With the right turbine housing and supporting mods, I'd imagine you could see well over 700whp from this turbo.