Which Turbo Should I Get [merged] What Turbo

Ludachris · Apr 6, 2002

Which turbo will be sufficient for consistent 11 second times? I've recently decided on a big 16g, but will that be big enough to run 11s with supporting mods and decent tuning? Remember, this is for a budget street car, so any one purchase over $1k is tough. A big 16g will run about $700-900, which is about $300-400 less than the larger alternatives.

Of course, I'll need lots of practice to run these times, but, I just want to make sure that it's possible before the money is spent.

kmetiuk · Jul 10, 2017

Holset HE351VE w/electronic control FTW!

Spool by 4000 and holds 35 psi to a 10K redline. HAHAHA.

Turbo choice is so so so personal. What are you goals?

my1st2genGSX · Jul 10, 2017

*not to steal his post* but I currently have a TD05 20G also and I'm not "having fun" with my set up.

Bleakley said:
Street / daily driver duties with the manners associated with the territory, and simplicity to boot.
EVO III 16G or TD05H 20G w/ the proper supporting mods.

Case closed on that one.

TD05H 20G is a FFUUNN CAR!

My question is what would be the supporting mods for this? I have 450s, fmic, full megan exhaust, and turbo xs mbc. I also have Greddy emanage not fully installed from the PO, so its not tuned properly. Im pretty sure the first thing is to tune it. But am i missing something in my current set up?

SouthIndy_Talon · Jul 10, 2017

my1st2genGSX said:
*not to steal his post* but I currently have a TD05 20G also and I'm not "having fun" with my set up.

My question is what would be the supporting mods for this? I have 450s, fmic, full megan exhaust, and turbo xs mbc. I also have Greddy emanage not fully installed from the PO, so its not tuned properly. Im pretty sure the first thing is to tune it. But am i missing something in my current set up?

If you are only running 450cc injectors, that means you are on a completely stock fuel system. You are going to need to install bigger injectors, a bigger fuel pump, and mostly likely an adjustable fuel pressure regulator if you want to see some potential out of that turbo. Once all that is installed, it will need to be properly tuned to get everything working together. The car will NOT be fun if you until everything is working together.

Andy0912 · Jul 10, 2017

my1st2genGSX said:
*not to steal his post* but I currently have a TD05 20G also and I'm not "having fun" with my set up.

My question is what would be the supporting mods for this? I have 450s, fmic, full megan exhaust, and turbo xs mbc. I also have Greddy emanage not fully installed from the PO, so its not tuned properly. Im pretty sure the first thing is to tune it. But am i missing something in my current set up?

What do you mean by "not fun"? Looks like injectors would be the first thing I would get along with tuning of course. You have alot more power hiding behind those small injectors. And you'll need a bigger fuel pump like a Walbri 255lph with an adjdtabke fuel pressure regulator.

Here's the turbo's airflow:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/turbo-flow-rates-here.9593/

Here's the supported airflow:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/injector-and-fuel-pump-supported-airflow.366003/

So a 20g flows 44lbs/min, and 750cc injectors will support that airflow at 80% injector duty cycle. That won't stress your injectors, and it will give you room to grow.

Brando_DSM · Jul 10, 2017

asking the best turbo for a 2g is like asking what the best food is to cure your hunger.

we need to know you budget, hp goals, etc. also for consideration is your supporting mods, resources, etc. such an open ended question pal

my1st2genGSX · Jul 10, 2017

Brando_DSM said:
asking the best turbo for a 2g is like asking what the best food is to cure your hunger.

we need to know you budget, hp goals, etc. also for consideration is your supporting mods, resources, etc. such an open ended question pal

Budget is always changing due to life. HP goals - be a good weekend driver..so 350-400. not the 450 to where I start breaking things. Supporting mods are partly done due to the PO. I am mechanically inclined so it will all be done myself.

Andy0912 said:
What do you mean by "not fun"? Looks like injectors would be the first thing I would get along with tuning of course. You have alot more power hiding behind those small injectors. And you'll need a bigger fuel pump like a Walbri 255lph with an adjdtabke fuel pressure regulator.

Here's the turbo's airflow:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/turbo-flow-rates-here.9593/

Here's the supported airflow:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/injector-and-fuel-pump-supported-airflow.366003/

So a 20g flows 44lbs/min, and 750cc injectors will support that airflow at 80% injector duty cycle. That won't stress your injectors, and it will give you room to grow.

What I mean about not being fun is that a buddy of mine with a chipped ecu in a stock civic beat me on the highway just doing 34, 40, 50 mph pulls. :cry:

I have seen the posts for the flow rates for the turbos but haven't seen the second one you posted. So, i now know what need to do. But, my next issue is the turbo is only boosting up to 13psi. I have seen other posts way over that. i am still internally waste-gated. Thanks for any input.

Bleakley · Jul 10, 2017

my1st2genGSX said:
*not to steal his post* but I currently have a TD05 20G also and I'm not "having fun" with my set up.

My question is what would be the supporting mods for this? I have 450s, fmic, full megan exhaust, and turbo xs mbc. I also have Greddy emanage not fully installed from the PO, so its not tuned properly. Im pretty sure the first thing is to tune it. But am i missing something in my current set up?

Alright. First... Stock fuel pump is pretty bad on a 2g (looks like you drive a 1g? I don't have experience there).
HOWEVER, stock ECU, injectors, lines, etc on a 2g nets you 300whp all day long, RELIABLY!
Referencing the TD06 20G compressor map...:
~280whp @ ~14.5 psi
~325whp @ ~18 psi
~360whp @ ~21.5psi
~380whp @ ~23.5psi

If you are having issues / want help or guidance, definitely kick up a new thread and I'll head over and help.
I'm sure you'll get a bunch of other people in there too!

my1st2genGSX · Jul 10, 2017

And how would I know if my fuel pump has been rewired....of course by looking at it, but what would i be looking for exactly? I have seen the one post for the 1g, is it the same for a 2g, and same for the upgraded fuel pump- never mind I'm gonna stop acting like a noob :confused:

that knows nothing about a car. I will pulling the fuel pump to see if it has been upgraded. But the info i would like to be enlighten on would be the rewiring portion.

Bleakley · Jul 10, 2017

http://www.raktron.com/fuel/rewire1.html

Fantastic guide.

Brando_DSM · Jul 10, 2017

my1st2genGSX said:
And how would I know if my fuel pump has been rewired....of course by looking at it, but what would i be looking for exactly? I have seen the one post for the 1g, is it the same for a 2g, and same for the upgraded fuel pump- never mind I'm gonna stop acting like a noob that knows nothing about a car. I will pulling the fuel pump to see if it has been upgraded. But the info i would like to be enlighten on would be the rewiring portion.

if you see a relay connected to your fuel pump, it's been rewired.

Andy0912 · Jul 10, 2017

Bleakley said:
Alright. First... Stock fuel pump is pretty bad on a 2g (looks like you drive a 1g? I don't have experience there).
HOWEVER, stock ECU, injectors, lines, etc on a 2g nets you 300whp all day long, RELIABLY!
Referencing the TD06 20G compressor map...:
~280whp @ ~14.5 psi
~325whp @ ~18 psi
~360whp @ ~21.5psi
~380whp @ ~23.5psi

If you are having issues / want help or guidance, definitely kick up a new thread and I'll head over and help.
I'm sure you'll get a bunch of other people in there too!

I'm confused, how exactly is it possible to get 300whp out of a stock fuel system with a 20g... And psi is not a direct correlation to horsepower, so I'm curious how you got those numbers.

Bleakley · Jul 10, 2017

You flow the required amount of air? (~30 lb/min or so)
And I said stock ECU, injectors, lines, etc. NOT stock fuel system. Stock fuel pump does not support 300whp.

They're conservative estimates/predictions from studying a compressor map.
While there is not a direct correlation between psi and horsepower, there IS a direct correlation between lb/min and horsepower. Broadly put - you flow more air you ARE going to put down more ponies.

Keywords "20G compressor map" in Google. First two maps are nearly identical. One is in cfm, the other is in kg/sec

Most know how to convert cfm to lb/min, choose your own method (I multiply by 0.069). For the map with kg/sec I turn to an online calculator...

From my interpretations, I'm saying anything 17.0-17.5 psi or more should be netting you 300whp or more...

Andy0912 · Jul 10, 2017

Okay

Bleakley said:
You flow the required amount of air? (~30 lb/min or so)
And I said stock ECU, injectors, lines, etc. NOT stock fuel system. Stock fuel pump does not support 300whp.

They're conservative estimates/predictions from studying a compressor map.
While there is not a direct correlation between psi and horsepower, there IS a direct correlation between lb/min and horsepower. Broadly put - you flow more air you ARE going to put down more ponies.

Keywords "20G compressor map" in Google. First two maps are nearly identical. One is in cfm, the other is in kg/sec

Most know how to convert cfm to lb/min, choose your own method (I multiply by 0.069). For the map with kg/sec I turn to an online calculator...

From my interpretations, I'm saying anything 17.0-17.5 psi or more should be netting you 300whp or more...

I see what you mean now. I also had the stock injector size mixed up because I quickly glanced at the 390cc instead of the 450cc.

my1st2genGSX · Jul 10, 2017

That should be capable with the supporting mods that have been previously stated?

Bleakley · Jul 10, 2017

The term "supporting mods" encapsulates what is required to support that amount of horsepower.

After maintenance / making sure the car's good to go as stock.
For a 300whp goal, at the very least, fuel pump w/ rewire and a wideband is first thing I'd do.

My supporting mods were considerably more extensive when I was shooting for 300whp though.

my1st2genGSX · Jul 10, 2017

Bleakley said:
The term "supporting mods" encapsulates what is required to support that amount of horsepower.

After maintenance / making sure the car's good to go as stock.
For a 300whp goal, at the very least, fuel pump w/ rewire and a wideband is first thing I'd do.

My supporting mods were considerably more extensive when I was shooting for 300whp though.

I just posted another topic i had question about. I have done the maintenance. New timing belt, w/p. PO put in new plugs, battery. I have also installed a wide band. So, I am new to the DSM world and forced induction world as well. But I am semi familiar with this kind of stuff. But wont a better fuel pump ex: 255lph w/o the rewire be ok? When I bought the car a year ago there was a lot done to it before I started anything. What were your mods that you had?..if i may ask.

Alberto300talon · Jul 10, 2017

Thank you for all the replies my dsm brother's sorry if my question was not fully addressed, just looking for something better than the stock turbo.budget something around 500+

Alberto300talon · Jul 10, 2017

kmetiuk said:
Holset HE351VE w/electronic control FTW!

Spool by 4000 and holds 35 psi to a 10K redline. HAHAHA.

Turbo choice is so so so personal. What are you goals?

Hey bro my goal is just something better than stock nothing so pricey...

Alberto300talon · Jul 10, 2017

Bleakley said:
Street / daily driver duties with the manners associated with the territory, and simplicity to boot.
EVO III 16G or TD05H 20G w/ the proper supporting mods.

Case closed on that one.

TD05H 20G is a FFUUNN CAR!

Thank you bro I'm going to check those 2 turbos

Alberto300talon · Jul 10, 2017

95eclipser said:
FP 68HTA

Beautiful bro

boostdawd · Jul 11, 2017

I second the fp68hta. Bolt on and simple. Of course if you really want to be a beast get a holset. Very good reliable turbo for cheap if done right.

95eclipser · Jul 11, 2017

For street i don't see how you beat a 68HTA.

Andy0912 · Jul 11, 2017

95eclipser said:
For street i don't see how you beat a 68HTA.

I also really like everything I've heard about those. Same install as 16g, moves more air, seems the same or similar spool, doesn't seem to be anything bad about this turbo.

Boomdeeze · Jul 11, 2017

The draw back for a lot of people are the price of the 68HTA compared to a e316g, even buying used they are a bit more. The OP stated his budget was around the $500 mark.

Bleakley · Jul 11, 2017

Which again is EVO III 16G / TD05H 20G territory..

While I do not have personal experience. My research points that the 68hta IS laggier than a 20G and definitely more so than an E316G.
Which makes sense given different turbine wheel (bigger), housing (bigger), AND different (bigger) compressor wheel than an E316G (slightly smaller than a 20G wheel though)

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