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Turbo System Tech: 4G63 turbos, Intercooling, Boost Control, Wastegates, etc.

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Old 02-02-2012, 03:11 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #1 (permalink)
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Single Sequential Turbocharger


Was checking out some Fords and look what they came out with! How sick would it be to run one on a dsm? And for all those people running twin chargers imagine how much space it may free up.

Kinda interesting to check out. Heres the website.

First Look: Ford's All-New 6.7-Liter V-8 Power Stroke Diesel Engine - PickupTrucks.com News
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Old 02-02-2012, 03:33 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #2 (permalink)
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I think they're going to see a lot of failure rates with that. Garrett doesn't make reliable standard turbos, I'd hate to see what happens with these. Very interesting concept none-the-less.
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Old 02-02-2012, 03:42 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #3 (permalink)
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Garrett has been playing around with those for a while. I haven't seen any test data on them though.

I wish Ford would have stuck with the compound turbo configuration. My buddy has an F450 with it and it makes for an impressive powerband. I thought Ford did a great job packaging it in there too.


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Old 02-02-2012, 05:28 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #4 (permalink)
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I will try and search for some test data. If all else fails Ill have my dad ask his boss. His boss is Mr. Ford
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Old 02-02-2012, 05:36 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #5 (permalink)
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Ford V8 diesel trucks haven't been worth a damn since the 7.3 with the Garrett GTP38 surge-king. That 7.3 had enough off-boost torque to rip a house off it's foundation- now we have trucks that don't make shit for power unless they're up in the revs and making boost, just like our cars.

Up until 2002 they had a great thing going- ever since it's been smaller 6.0 and 6.4 engines working twice as hard, getting fuel mileage worse than the 7.3, breaking down ten times as often, and costing three times as much to repair. Perhaps Ford will redeem themselves with the 6.7, but if I had to spend money on a diesel truck tomorrow it would be a Dodge for sure. Seeing the breakdown of this turbocharger is even more reinforcement to my claim.


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Old 02-02-2012, 06:59 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #6 (permalink)
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What's with the two compressor outlets?
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:06 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusMX141 View Post
Ford V8 diesel trucks haven't been worth a damn since the 7.3 with the Garrett GTP38 surge-king. That 7.3 had enough off-boost torque to rip a house off it's foundation- now we have trucks that don't make shit for power unless they're up in the revs and making boost, just like our cars.

Up until 2002 they had a great thing going- ever since it's been smaller 6.0 and 6.4 engines working twice as hard, getting fuel mileage worse than the 7.3, breaking down ten times as often, and costing three times as much to repair. Perhaps Ford will redeem themselves with the 6.7, but if I had to spend money on a diesel truck tomorrow it would be a Dodge for sure. Seeing the breakdown of this turbocharger is even more reinforcement to my claim.
Agreed but the government and consumers are what is driving the engines to be what they are. Just trying to get the emissions and fuel economy to a legal amount meant the 6.0L needed the EGR that was its achilles heel and the newer trucks need to have half the engine under the cab so the windshield can slope more. Consumers also don't like the turbo lag and don't want their diesel to act like a diesel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TSi Kid View Post
What's with the metal pipe coming off on the top right of the turbo? I'm lost.
edit: Sendonary compressor inlet. My bad, looking at the wrong thing. Thanks DSM_love_GST


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Old 02-02-2012, 07:07 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #8 (permalink)
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That is the secondary compressor inlet
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:08 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSi Kid View Post
What's with the metal pipe coming off on the top right of the turbo? I'm lost.
Looks like where compressed air should come out... What Im lost about is where the compresed air gets recirculated...

Actually looking at the other pic on the website im totally lost. It looks like they split the v configuration to operate on different halves of 1 turbo. 1 engine engine, 1 turbo, 2 halves on each. like an opposing twin scroll turbo with one hot outlet. and 1 cold inlet with 2 compressor outlets. I dont think its really as cool as they hype it to be. looks excessively complicated.

But It does look like there is some sensor in the center of the housing: maybe a turbine shaft rpm sensor, temp sensor, or oil pressure. Im betting on temperature sensor to prevent oil cooking after shutdown.
edit:

HAHA looks like we are all lost.

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Old 02-02-2012, 07:14 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #10 (permalink)
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Interesting to say the least. Are there two inducer wheels back to back? They have to move together, so just a small wheel on one side and a large wheel attached to its backside?
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:38 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusMX141 View Post
Ford V8 diesel trucks haven't been worth a damn since the 7.3 with the Garrett GTP38 surge-king. That 7.3 had enough off-boost torque to rip a house off it's foundation- now we have trucks that don't make shit for power unless they're up in the revs and making boost, just like our cars.

Up until 2002 they had a great thing going- ever since it's been smaller 6.0 and 6.4 engines working twice as hard, getting fuel mileage worse than the 7.3, breaking down ten times as often, and costing three times as much to repair. Perhaps Ford will redeem themselves with the 6.7, but if I had to spend money on a diesel truck tomorrow it would be a Dodge for sure. Seeing the breakdown of this turbocharger is even more reinforcement to my claim.
I went to a diesel school last year and nobody really likes the newer fords although the may have rediemend them selfs with the scorpion.
But on a side note on the cummins they have awesome engines but there Tranys are kinda weak I had two buddy's with 06 07 manual cummins and they put some humgo turbos on there trucks and there Tranys both went with in 2 months.
But for a stock truck you can't beat dodge.

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Old 02-02-2012, 07:41 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #12 (permalink)
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I read the thingy from the link: It has one turbine wheel with two inlets, one outlet, and variable vanes surrounding it to adjust velocity (controlled by that electronic actuator in the cartridge).

The compressor side has two mirror image siamesed compressor wheels packaged in a single housing.

The intake sides of the heads are at the outsides of the engine, and the exhaust manifolds are in the center facing towards each other. The turbo sits in the valley between the heads.
Instead of hanging the turbo from the turbine housing, the center section has a four bolt pedestal to relieve stress on the hot turbine housing.

Sounds good in theory.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:48 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbotsiawd View Post
I went to a diesel school last year and nobody really likes the newer fords although the may have rediemend them selfs with the scorpion.
But on a side note on the cummins they have awesome engines but there Tranys are kinda weak I had two buddy's with 06 07 manual cummins and they put some humgo turbos on there trucks and there Tranys both went with in 2 months.
But for a stock truck you can't beat dodge.
The Cummins is the best engine, but its not only the transmission that is weak on Rams, its everything. Precisely why I would rather deal with a couple fixable engine issues than constantly be replacing u-joints, suspension, transmissions, etc.

A Cummins/Allison in a Powerstroke is the dream truck.


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Old 02-02-2012, 09:20 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1990AWD View Post
A Cummins/Allison in a Powerstroke is the dream truck.
I always heard that a Cummins/Allison in a Chev is the dream truck.


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Old 02-02-2012, 09:25 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronus View Post
I always heard that a Cummins/Allison in a Chev is the dream truck.
Chevys are too soft. Make good city trucks.


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Old 02-02-2012, 09:59 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #16 (permalink)
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Understand now?
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:02 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #17 (permalink)
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I said it wrong...Dual inlet for the turbine, one outlet for exhaust outlet..1 outlet for compressed air, and 2 inlets for regular air...

Ya I had to look at the pic in the article again.It is an interesting turbo..


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Old 02-02-2012, 10:03 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #18 (permalink)
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Essentially they stuck two turbos back to back, and deleted two outlets. It really isn't complicating at all. but rather stupid in my opinion. It will be one huge fail, and when people end up blowing their turbos. They wont have another one to replace it with because of the fail design.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:07 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #19 (permalink)
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another view


http://www.internationalpowerstroke.com/sst.html
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:17 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #20 (permalink)
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While it is complicated and possibly trouble prone, it is a very smart idea, especially with the reverse flow heads. I'm sure when used in stock application it will last trouble free for a long time. They say by 500hp this turbo is out of airflow and since stock is already 400, people will probably just be throwing on twins or a larger single anyway.


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