tial wastegate install = no idle

[johneclipse]

So i installed a ported 2g manifold with a tial 38mm external wastegate off the manifold. It supposedly has a large red spring in it. Car ran fine before the install besides massive boost creep. I had the stock wastegate on the 14b welded shut and locked down. Installed everything. Now the car will start, then die automatically. However if i give it gas, it will run. The tial gate is dumped to the atmosphere and it dumps at "idle". Could this be my problem?

I have my boost source running from my j-pipe to the side port on the 38mm gate. My car was set for 19lbs before i took my MBC off to try and fix this problem.

My mods are walbro 190, 550 injectors, 2gmaf, and the external gate.

 

[gofer]

sounds like theres no spring inside your wastegate

I'm not laughing at you but if you bought the wastegate used someone might have gotten your $$$... Pull the wastegate off and see if you can press it open with your finger.

 

[johneclipse]

sounds like theres no spring inside your wastegate

I'm not laughing at you but if you bought the wastegate used someone might have gotten your $$$... Pull the wastegate off and see if you can press it open with your finger.

i tried that before puttin it on. it was quite stiff. However im also starting to think somethings wrong with the spring. this would have nothing to do with the diaphram right? Could it be the spring in it is to light for my setup?

I also did a BLT today and had none.

 

[gofer]

If the wastegates opening at idle that means the wastegates the culprit, no question. Pull it off and pop the top and check out whats going on in there, just becareful when your doing it because that spring has got some tension on it... Theres also a gasket that goes between the wastegate and the exhaust manifold, be sure that its sealing there as well...

The spring can't be to light for your setup at idle, your not building any boost! The large red spring starts to open at 11.86psi...

 

[johneclipse]

If the wastegates opening at idle that means the wastegates the culprit, no question. Pull it off and pop the top and check out whats going on in there, just becareful when your doing it because that spring has got some tension on it... Theres also a gasket that goes between the wastegate and the exhaust manifold, be sure that its sealing there as well...

The spring can't be to light for your setup at idle, your not building any boost! The large red spring starts to open at 11.86psi...

alright, i guess ill do that tomorrow. Good idea to use a clamp to keep the top down while unscrewing the screws?
would a slight leak at one of the gaskets from the wastegate to mani/dumptube cause this?

 

[TRSblader]

Don't really need a clamp, you just need to keep pressure on it and be ready for it. I've heard stories of people just popping the screws as fast as possible and the thing popping off. I had a stiffer spring in mine and when I took it apart I just used my hand and pressed down on top. No problems at all.

 

[johneclipse]

Don't really need a clamp, you just need to keep pressure on it and be ready for it. I've heard stories of people just popping the screws as fast as possible and the thing popping off. I had a stiffer spring in mine and when I took it apart I just used my hand and pressed down on top. No problems at all.

sounds good, ill tear it apart tomorrow and report back. ill be sure to get pics of the internals as well...im not really sure of what all should be there to begin with

 

[johneclipse]

i opened it up, everything seems to be there. could it be a bad diaphram or valve?

 

[#40Fan]

Still not sure how a f'd up WG can cause idle issues. When the car is first started it is running in open loop so it should run whether there is exhaust gases passing the O2 or not. Wouldn't think the lack of back pressure would cause any problems either.

I am willing to bet that something else is going on.

If you really think that the WG is the problem, get something to cover the exit side and start the car up. At idle you should be able to hold whatever you are using against the WG.

How about posting a pic of your install???

 

[DSM nOOb]

do you have a valve seat in?

 

[gofer]

Still not sure how a f'd up WG can cause idle issues. When the car is first started it is running in open loop so it should run whether there is exhaust gases passing the O2 or not. Wouldn't think the lack of back pressure would cause any problems either.

I am willing to bet that something else is going on.

If you really think that the WG is the problem, get something to cover the exit side and start the car up. At idle you should be able to hold whatever you are using against the WG.

How about posting a pic of your install???

I dont' think we're saying that the wastegate thats FUBAR is causing the idle issue but it shouldn't be opening during idle, you've gotta fix one thing at a time...

 

[aero_sallee]

You didn't accidentally unplug the MAF plug part way while installing the WG ? Also large vacuum leaks can sometimes cause it.

It shouldn't be dumping at idle unless the fire ring is missing, or there isn't a spring in the gate at all.

 

[johneclipse]

You didn't accidentally unplug the MAF plug part way while installing the WG ? Also large vacuum leaks can sometimes cause it.

It shouldn't be dumping at idle unless the fire ring is missing, or there isn't a spring in the gate at all.

ill double check the maf plug.

there is a large red spring{10~ psi if im not mistaken}. The fire ring is the part between the manifold and gate right? Little bronze ring that sometimes sticks out? I had to "push" a ring back in the gate more so it would torque down and not leave a gap. Noticed after the idle comes back down from the fresh start my boost/vac gauge reads 10vac then goes to 0 when it dies. It was reading 20~ at idle and 25~ at a decel before i did this.

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sorry for the cell phone pics..best i can do

 

[gofer]

Damn, you had to bend the crap out of your oil dipstick to put that external on there didn't you? You should Seafoam and look for the leak, are you sure its coming out of the wg dump or that botched weld job on the exhaust mani?

Seafoam to find exhaust leaks

 

[Flash]

You shouldn't even be having problems, because there is no point to running an external gate on a 14b. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a huge boost leak, like he forgot to connect an intercooler pipe during the install.

 

[johneclipse]

You shouldn't even be having problems, because there is no point to running an external gate on a 14b. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a huge boost leak, like he forgot to connect an intercooler pipe during the install.

the only pipe i touched was the j-pipe. According to the BLT there isnt a leak.

As far as not needing a gate on the 14b...tell that to my 25psi creep with the stock gate...

 

[gofer]

Grant-
I agree with you, the external seems like overkill but I had to do the same thing running a s16g to keep it from creeping to 26psi. I even tried running the rare BEP TD05 hotside with the 38mm flapper and it still creeped. The only way I was able to get rid of it and still run my 3" turbo back exhaust was going external...

 

[#40Fan]

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See the seat next to the WG, did yours have one?

 

[johneclipse]

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See the seat next to the WG, did yours have one?

yep, thats the "fire ring" right? "fits" between the mani and the gate but is housed inside the gate...

 

[awdwhip]

#40 is probably right, you dont have the fire ring installed and the exhaust is bypassing the valve because it's actually not seated o anything.

I had the same problem when I bought my used tial 44mm waste gate. I didnt know it needed one at the time until I posted about it on the forum and someone mentioned the fire ring. I then ordered the fire ring and BAM! problem solved!

 

[#40Fan]

yep, thats the "fire ring" right? "fits" between the mani and the gate but is housed inside the gate...

That is the valve seat. There is also a little brass ring that fits on the seat as well. I couldn't find what it looks like on Tial's website, but here is a picture of a Synapse. See the small bronze colored ring? There should have been that as well as the seat pictured in the Tial wastegate.

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[gofer]

This is what the TiAL WG valve seat looks like...

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[19BLACKGST98]

That is the valve seat. There is also a little brass ring that fits on the seat as well. I couldn't find what it looks like on Tial's website, but here is a picture of a Synapse. See the small bronze colored ring? There should have been that as well as the seat pictured in the Tial wastegate.

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Are you sure tial wg have the bronze ring? That may be my problem.... If so where can I get one?

 

[a1320eclipse]

Tials dont use that little ring. They just use a simple fire ring.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Tials dont use that little ring. They just use a simple fire ring.

Damn I have the fire ring. Thanks for the reply.