turbo bearing wear??

[anteversion]

Well, i bought a used turbo that was supposed to be rebuild. The guys even sent me the invoice for the job. It have been made in a reputable turbo shop wich i don't remember the name. Turbo have been cleaned and rebalanced, and bearing were supposed to be new. The thing is that the turbo have tons of radial shaft play ( the compressor wheel is hitting the compressor cover ) but no axial play. So i've finally started the car for the fisrt time after the rebuilt yesterday and what going on, turbo compressor is still hitting the housing even with oil pressure on it. I was thinking that with pressure applied on it, the play will disappear but no luck.

So i've putted the turbo on the table and disasembled it. IT's strange cause it only seems to have 1 new bearing. And the two are not identical. One is grooved in the inside and the other is not. And you can definetly see the difference of color between the two.

But the thing is that even if the bearins are not new, there absolutely no signs of wear on them, wich makes me confused. I've also noticed that the play is not coming from the inside of the bearings and the shaft itself, it's from the center cartridge and the outside bearing. whem i force the shaft by one way or another, you can see the bearing itself moving into the center housing. Is this normal??

another pic

 

[DougR]

If a bushing or bearing is ever moving in its housing, At one time or another the bushing or bearing siezed to the shaft it rides and spun.
Causing damage to the part its pressed into.

Instead of replacing the center section the builder half assed it and just pressed in a new bushing.

 

[anteversion]

but the center section have absolutely no trace of wear nothing. no scratches or grooves. No heating marks either. So i don't think that the center section is the problem.

I've also took some measurements of the outside of the bearing which is .618 inch and the thickness of the bearing is .405 inch. Anyone knows anything about specs that these bearing should have???

Also the turbo is a bullseye power T04B 50 trim. Is these turbo use a Garrett center housing?? I've took a pic of the housing which is stamped G 11 on it?? anyone knows??

 

[toofast82]

Could have been a crappy/insufficient rebuild? They most likely didn't balance it with the housings on therefore, didn't see the compressor hitting housing.

The one journal bearing looks as if it may have been new. From the pic, the thrust doesn't look new as far as i can tell.
They make oversize bearings to accomodate the play between the chra and outside of journal bearing. The chra may require boring as well. They may have just poorly matched them at the shop causing the play
Can you get in the to mic the housing bores?
G-Pop Shop will have the necessary bearings though.

 

[anteversion]

Well i've tried to mesure the bore of the CHRA to know the gap between the outside of the bearing and the chra but i've not got some precise mesurements. It gave me .618 wich is the same as the bearing itself.

Thats weird cause obviously the bearings are not all new, cause its easily remarquable just by eye looking. but even if they not new, they seems to be in pretty good shape. except for the trust plate wich is a bit scored but nothing really bad.

I also mesured the radial shaft play, wich is around .022 inch. All the forums and tech articles i've read told all the same thing, wich shaft play must be below .030 inch.

Thats confused me alot, not so much shaft play but hitting the housing pretty much. I'm really puzzled.

 

[JusMX141]

Prolonged exposure to the acidity of used motor oil will discolor bronze parts. With that in mind:

Left journal bearing = new. Also appears to be a Genuine Garrett bearing; the giveaway being the deep groove around both sides of the bearing's inner surface.

Right journal bearing = used, without a doubt.

Thrust plate = used, but often thrust plates don't require replacement at the time of a rebuild as the thrust plate shouldn't see wear unless there's an oiling issue or you're running a very high boost level that is causing the thrust collar to contact the bearing.


.618" is the proper O.D. of a new T3 journal bearing. I don't know if you removed it or not but there's no turbine seal on the turbine shaft, either. It seems to me that the turbo was disassembled and cleaned but was reassembled with some used parts, which is ridiculous. Hell basic T3 rebuild kits are $30 on eBay....there's no reason for someone to be that much of a cheapskate.

 

[anteversion]

Thanks! i actually wish that is was you justmx that answer my thread! Well the turbine shaft have a seal but for an circumpstance reason, the seal seems to be absent on the picture. Also both seals seems to be new.

Yes like you've said, one bearing looks like new ( thanks for the clarification about he fact that it might be a garrett ) . The others looks obviously used. But they seems to be well still in specs.

Can you confirm that bullseyepower borgwarner T04b 50 trim old school turbo's are really using garrett CHRA??

By the fact i've ordered a complete rebuilt kit on ebay for a t3 at just 35$$ and it seems to be very great kit

 

[JusMX141]

Can you confirm that bullseyepower borgwarner T04b 50 trim old school turbo's are really using garrett CHRA??

All Garrett hybrids available for our cars use a Garrett T3 CHRA with the exception of the PTE GT3251 and GT3255 which use a GT32/35 CHRA (the same center housing design as the 7.3 Powerstroke turbos).

By the fact i've ordered a complete rebuilt kit on ebay for a t3 at just 35$$ and it seems to be very great kit

The country of origin may be a mystery but you can't go wrong for the price. I pay a little more for my kits from a reputable vendor, but I don't want any chance of ruining a customers turbo over cheap parts.

The key thing to remember here is *IF* the turbo is getting the proper amount of oil, the journal bearings and thrust plate should never make metal-on-metal contact regardless of their composition. Cheaper parts may effect overall longevity, but it's not going to blow in the first five minutes unless you have some other issue.

 

[anteversion]

Nice thanks a lot for your help