Holset Turbos, PART 4

[1gDSM4g63]

Where can I find a divided T3 housing for the HX40?

[darkhorizon]

I said "compressor cover" as I have heard that BEP made some of the hx35 replacement compressor covers, not exhaust housings.

I am running this in a fully custom setup, with a custom o2 "housing", which is basically just a 3inch piece of exhaust tube with 2 o2 bungs welded into it, took maybe 10 mins to make?

[ScottH]

Originally Posted by Steve93Talon

JM Fab divided T3 exhaust manifold- 90-99 Eclipse - GVautosport

Originally Posted by AXRabbit376

Steve, that manifold has twin gates. I need one that does not have gates on it. I will be running an internal gate.

Thanks for the info though

Jason, I am sure they can make that manifold for an internal gated turbo.

[AXRabbit376]

Originally Posted by 1gDSM4g63

Where can I find a divided T3 housing for the HX40?

The stock Holset compressor housing has a T4 divided flange.

Originally Posted by darkhorizon

I said "compressor cover" as I have heard that BEP made some of the hx35 replacement compressor covers, not exhaust housings.

I am running this in a fully custom setup, with a custom o2 "housing", which is basically just a 3inch piece of exhaust tube with 2 o2 bungs welded into it, took maybe 10 mins to make?

Sorry, by exhaust housing, I meant compressor housing, not o2 housing. Sorry for the confusion

[AXRabbit376]

Originally Posted by ScottH

Jason, I am sure they can make that manifold for an internal gated turbo.

Yea, for like 1k......I dunno Scott, the cost to do this might just be too high for me right now

[kicker91laser]

Originally Posted by 1gDSM4g63

Where can I find a divided T3 housing for the HX40?

I have one, pm me if you are interested.

[delta448]

Originally Posted by AXRabbit376

The stock Holset compressor housing has a T4 divided flange.

Sorry, by exhaust housing, I meant compressor housing, not o2 housing. Sorry for the confusion

A compressor cover as darkhorizon is referring to, actually covers the compressor wheel. Yes, they know about the different exhaust housings, which cover the exhaust side's turbine wheel, not the intake side's compressor wheel. I think you just got mixed up with terminology.

Circled in red below.

[ScottH]

Originally Posted by AXRabbit376

Yea, for like 1k......I dunno Scott, the cost to do this might just be too high for me right now

Yeah to do it the way you wanna do its ridiculously expensive. $1000 for just the manifold is alot. Even though it's a nice manifold it's defeats the purpose of going with a holset because it's a budget turbo that works well. I'd just bite the bullet and go with either the hx35 or hx40 with the BEP hotside. Either in dsm bolt on format or 70ar T3. It's not gonna spool up as fast as a T25 but the little amount of lag will be worth the wait when it hits full boost.

[AXRabbit376]

Originally Posted by delta448

A compressor cover as darkhorizon is referring to, actually covers the compressor wheel. Yes, they know about the different exhaust housings, which cover the exhaust side's turbine wheel, not the intake side's compressor wheel. I think you just got mixed up with terminology.

Circled in red below.

O, ok. My bad. I was not aware that BEP made compressor housings, just turbine housings

[dsm-onster]

Darkhorizon, I think we NEED to know what your inducer measures. There are SEVERAL confirmed maps of the hx35 turbo. 4 show 51-52 lb/min. 2 show 60lb/min. We really need to know which wheel does what.

Your turbine housing setup most certainly has something to do with actually reaching the peak flow of the large hx35 maps. These hx35/h1c/wh1c turbine wheels are not much bigger than t3 stage 3 turbine wheels, with more blades and a tighter angle. The simple open header design makes the twin scroll housing become a GIANT single scroll. Running a divided manifold with a twinscroll will force each pulse to see only half of the total housing volume, and peak flow may suffer. 6 cylinder has to get the pulses out faster before the next (3 fires on each side of the turbine housing per revolution, vs. a 4 cylinder with 2 fires on each side). So for us 4 cylinder guys, we may be able to reach higher peak flows with a divided runner manifold and twin scroll (TS) housing. The evo guys don't complain about loosing flow and not maxing out their evo8 16g compressors.

Any divided manifold and TS turbine design will help engine VE, since there is much less back pressure present. Because of the fact that a TS and matching header shields the overlap time from the exhaust pulse of the next firing cylinder.

[darkhorizon]

I can grab measurements soon this morning.

For what its worth, I talked to a "holset insider" that apparently "had" the right compressor maps straight from holset, and he is saying that we are not on the right path looking at the HX30e maps. He reminded me that max flow is not what makes a turbo better or worse than another one. But then, he sorta contradicted himself in the terms that the HX35 "should" have a very wide map, considering its advertised as being map width enhanced.

[dsm-onster]

Well, I think that opinion leans more toward a diesel application. Diesels easily surge a turbo. The MWE is a surge deterent. This is why a holset is better for a diesel. High boost efficiency and no matter the boost or rpm, no surge.

My big h1c, with no MWE groove (just the webbing) doesn't surge at all. And when the groove was cut in, the spool slowed a little. Us gases don't have to worry about surge like diesels. . . We appaently flow well enough to be farther to the right on the map even as a 4 cylinder. We're not towing anything that will cause enough load to spool the turbo to 30 psi at 1000rpms with their 5.9, or for us by 2900rpms with our 4 cylinder (Disp X RPMs = Volume/min). We need to know how much the compressor flows. And we need to know if the turbine can spin it and flows enough to get those gases out. We can't just turn up the gas and get more power. We need air. We all know that holsets have higher efficiency. Compressor flow is only half the story hence my comment above.

There is an hx35 map that is not the hx30e-7755 map.



But when you them, you see that they are practically identical. Every point (PR, lb/min) that you plot on one map, the other map at the same coordinates has the same or VERY close to the same efficieny and rpm. . .

[darkhorizon]

That picture makes my eyes hurt!

So are you officially saying I might have a hx30e compressor on my hands, thats simply labeled as a HX35?

I am going outside soon, have to finish up a test.

[dsm-onster]

I'm saying that the hx30e-7755 compressor spits out the same map as the 8blade hx35. 52 lb/min maximum with the same efficiency bands and rpm curves.

The hx30e-7765 looks very similar to the holset map found on that Cummins Technologies Holset Frame Sizes .pdf that we have and you reminded me of in one of your recent PMs. The one here.

Thanx for taking the time to measure. This really does help us !

The hx30w is tiny. . . Perhaps that gentleman you were talking about was referring to the hx30/hx30w (not hx30e):

[darkhorizon]

no, he was not mistaken. I trust him as an authority on this discussion.

Still finishing up homework.

[darkhorizon]

The inducer is indeed 56mm, the exducer is 78mm.

[dsm-onster]

D@mn.

This means that any 7blade hx35 guys have this in their future, if they have enough turbine flow. If they're running the bolton bep housing, then the upgrade to the .70 a/r housing is a gain for sure. . .

One less compressor blade (8blade 56mm inducer vs. 7 blade 56mm) makes more of a difference than I thought. . .

[SpeedAddict62]

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

D@mn.

This means that any 7blade hx35 guys have this in their future, if they have enough turbine flow. If they're running the bolton bep housing, then the upgrade to the .70 a/r housing is a gain for sure. . .

One less compressor blade (8blade 56mm inducer vs. 7 blade 56mm) makes more of a difference than I thought. . .

Ok...sorry if I sound like a newblet, but this post has me confused,

1. What compressor wheels do we know exist for the HX35 (8 blade 56mm, 7 blade 56mm, etc.)?

2. What is the estimated flow rate for each?

[dsm-onster]

We're learning every day. The hx35 in the bolton housing at the very least flows more than the 50-trim and spools faster than an evo3 16g.

There seams to be only a 56mm inducer for any stock hx35. The 7 blade has brrn proven to push upwards of a 60-1, at 60ish lb/min. This is in gt35r territory. . . And it spools as fast as what?

[SpeedAddict62]

I just checked my bedroom and sure enough I have a 7 blade HX35. Now I just need a non wastegated 12 cm^2 housing, a divided T3 manifold, 2 Tial wastegates and a new 02 housing...this might take a while.