fp18g sl2......is it only good for 400hp?

[bastard dsm]

well i was breaking my neck trying to figure out what turbo to buy,
either tdo6 20g or the 18g sl2.i didnt have enough money to spend
and i like the thought of a very fast spooling turbo for my 91 gvr4.
the 18g was my pick for the daily and here is the outcome.

mod list
stock 6bolt block
bs eliminated
arp's and stock HG
super-tec single spring retaner kit
bc 280 cams aem cam gears
magnus intake manny gasket
fic 750's and 255 pump
fidanza 8lbs fw and comp stg4 clutch
fp race ex-manny and 18g sl2 (ported)
tail 38 on o2
apexi dp and custom 3" exh.
ebay evo8 fmic and custom 2 1/4-2 3/4 piping
dsm link + maft
aem wide band
full e85

on 28psi tapering down to 25 at 7k th car put down 443hp/425lbs, not to shabby.
the turbo comes on hard at 4k and dosnt stop till you shift and is very quick to
get back in boost.personally i feel like the turbo can reach close to 500hp
with higher compresion and a good intake manifold with some c16 in the mix.
the power band this turbo puts out is way better than my 57 trim threw the
low and mid range but falls just a hair short up top,but light to light the 18g
wins hands down.

 

[turboglenn]

Very nice numbers Looks like you're squeezing every last ounce of power from that compressor, way to go!

BTW... 57 trim guy here as well, i think i know why you are trying smaller turbos for your street ride. I've been thinking about going down to something 20g'ish or similar. I don't need a million HP, i just want the widest powerband i can get without giving up too much top end.

 

[bastard dsm]

true that well even at 7k i still had about 420hp...here is the dyno sheet
the line under the hp and lbs is my power at 20psi...it was still over 400hp and 360lbs
of sleeper power.

p.s sorry for the bad pic phone

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[T9S1i]

nice numbers!! where do you get spool by? like 15lbs and then 20?

 

[silver bullit]

Can you fix the grapg so that we can look at a big pic not a small one, btw nice ride and setup pics?

 

[bastard dsm]

nice numbers!! where do you get spool by? like 15lbs and then 20?

full boost 28psi by 4k and 15psi at 3500,the fp manny slowed spool time a little but it breaths
good up top.ill have to take another pic with my friends cam. later.

 

[chavez408]

Nice!
Everyone is using e85 now

 

[bastard dsm]

e85 is the &^%$,just tuned a turbo gsr that went from 450hp on 93 to 575hp on e85 under
28psi.i also saw a big gain from 320hp to 445hp on the corn juice.

 

[chavez408]

What excatly is e85 anyways

 

[Steve93Talon]

Logs?

 

[Boo5t_Addict]

E85 is a gasoline/ethanol mix. It's 85% ethanol, and 15% gasoline.

 

[bastard dsm]

i dont save my logs but at 5500rpm the link said 52lbs of air but with the maft its a little
high,its prob about 46-47lbs.timing is at 26deg at 4500-5000rpm and tapers down to 22-23
at red line.injector cycle is 100% by 5500-6k,but im on the stock fuel reg at 43psi.

 

[Steve93Talon]

timing is at 26deg at 4500-5000rpm and tapers down to 22-23 at red line

Why would you run so much timing in the midrange and then pull it back up top?

 

[bastard dsm]

because i didnt make more power with the additional timing up top,so i pulled it to 22-23 deg
so i dont get knock on the street.A dyno tune changes once the car hits the road,so i gave myself some head room.

 

[turboglenn]

because i didn't make more power with the additional timing up top,so i pulled it to 22-23 deg
so i don't get knock on the street.A dyno tune changes once the car hits the road,so i gave myself some head room.

So true, i can never get the same amount of load on the dyno as i get on the street, even in the same gear. On the dyno when i tuned my pump gas map here a few months back i could only get ~20 psi out of my EBC, but that same day on the ride home i was able to hit 24 psi consistently. Seen it show up as a lean spot on a ton of Porsche club cars though. The 944's are especially picky when it comes to the difference in fuel and timing demands changing from the dyno to the track. I'll usually tune a club car a half point richer on the dyno than I'll want it to be on the track/street.(some of our rich guy club racers do actually drive their track cars on the street for fun)

 

[T9S1i]

my friend would put the e-brake up slightly on the dyno to try to get a little more load on his car! haha, not the most reliable, but he kind of found a sweet spot where it wasnt hurting much, but putting a little more load on the car

 

[Black_Bullet]

because i didnt make more power with the additional timing up top,so i pulled it to 22-23 deg
so i dont get knock on the street.A dyno tune changes once the car hits the road,so i gave myself some head room.

I guess MBT for your car is at 23 degs.
Most cars ive read about seem to make the most power around 24-26 degs.

So true, i can never get the same amount of load on the dyno as i get on the street, even in the same gear. On the dyno when i tuned my pump gas map here a few months back i could only get ~20 psi out of my EBC, but that same day on the ride home i was able to hit 24 psi consistently. Seen it show up as a lean spot on a ton of Porsche club cars though. The 944's are especially picky when it comes to the difference in fuel and timing demands changing from the dyno to the track. I'll usually tune a club car a half point richer on the dyno than I'll want it to be on the track/street.(some of our rich guy club racers do actually drive their track cars on the street for fun)

Yea this is true, i never realized this but the one time ive been to the dyno it was on 20 psi, and the same day, driving on the street in the same gear it was spiking 21-22 psi which it did not do on the dyno.

I think those 280s are helping you make the most power, but i think that your set up would benefit more without them... Straight 272s to me seem like youd have a better power band while making roughly the same power.
I also think youd be better off with an extrude honed 1g intake manifold vs the magnus. But thats just my opinion. Your turbo still has more boost in it.

 

[mavisky]

I agree about the cams. I've also heard that the bc's can be off at times so you might be well advised to check the cam timing on those. Stopping a set of 280's at 7500rpm is holding back their true potential.

 

[Tarantula]

No one has asked this but What A/F ratio was you running? I'm currently running my Fp3052 and looking for 400 with stock cams (Will upgrade this summer) The 47- 48lbs/min and your HP number pretty much matches so that sounds about right with math.

1 HP approx equals 1.45 CFM
1 CFM approx equals 0.0745 lb/min

445Hp x 1.45CFm = 645.25 cfm
645.25 cfm x .0745 = 48.07 lbs/min (estimated)

Let us know the fuel ratio you was running and was you running Straight E85 or a mix with Premium pump gas?

Right now I'm at 20-21psi and seeing around 36lbs/min on the logger

 

[bastard dsm]

a/f's we 11.5 or so, most people tune 12.5 on the juice but i didnt try to.
the 280's made more power than my 272's and power fell threw out the power band
with the 272's.the intake manny is holding back the power, other than that its a wicked fast
car. 434lbs at 4500rpms is as good as your going to get with a setup like mine.i have cam gears
and made 20+hp playing with the exh. cam and 21hp making a new intake pipe.didnt play
with the intake ### their is no need to, exh. cam is at 6 deg retard and base timming is at 10 deg.
im on full e85 and i kept the car rich to help the cooling effect it has to help keep the power up.i tried to run 12.4's but didnt see that much of a gain, if any it lost some in the mid range.

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[dsm-onster]

. . .
the 280's made more power than my 272's and power fell threw out the power band with the 272's.the intake manny is holding back the power, other than that its a wicked fast car. 434lbs at 4500rpms is as good as your going to get with a setup like mine.i have cam gears and made 20+hp playing with the exh. cam and 21hp making a new intake pipe.didnt play with the intake ### their is no need to, exh. cam is at 6 deg retard and base timming is at 10 deg. . .

You've dialed in more overlap and made 280s have a great midrange. And you have enough cam for a turbo 50% larger later. BC280s have signifintly more lift than 272s and even fp2/fp2Xs. The td06sl 18g should be responding well to more overlap (better than an evo3 16g or td05h 18g) because the turbine wheel flows more and keeps exhaust manifold pressure down.

The 18g compressor has 655cfm in it. You'll gain power from freeing up the engine with better VE, but not with much more boost. Of course you know this because already mentioned losing boost up top . A SMIM should definately be your next purchase. I've seen more than one smim setup gain power/torque throughout the rev range (4500ish and up). A good SMIM does alot more than increase your peak flow. Don't mess with the 1g intake mani anymore.

BTW... 57 trim guy here as well, i think i know why you are trying smaller turbos for your street ride. I've been thinking about going down to something 20g'ish or similar. I don't need a million HP, i just want the widest powerband i can get without giving up too much top end.

You mean physically smaller or flow less??? The td06 20g compressor flows about 5 lbs/min more than a 57-trim . (ASSuming .1m^3/sec ≈ 14.8lb/min)
http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/compressormaps/td06-20g.gif
http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/compressormaps/t04e-57.gif

 

[Black_Bullet]

You've dialed in more overlap and made 280s have a great midrange. And you have enough cam for a turbo 50% larger later. BC280s have signifintly more lift than 272s and even fp2/fp2Xs. The td06sl 18g should be responding well to more overlap (better than an evo3 16g or td05h 18g) because the turbine wheel flows more and keeps exhaust manifold pressure down.

The 18g compressor has 655cfm in it. You'll gain power from freeing up the engine with better VE, but not with much more boost. Of course you know this because already mentioned losing boost up top . A SMIM should definately be your next purchase. I've seen more than one smim setup gain power/torque throughout the rev range (4500ish and up). A good SMIM does alot more than increase your peak flow. Don't mess with the 1g intake mani anymore.

No, he said he has a magnus.

 

[dsm-onster]

He has a magnus mani gasket, not intake mani ... yet

 

[Black_Bullet]

He has a magnus mani gasket, not intake mani ... yet

Oooh, ok my bad.

 

[bastard dsm]

yea a manny is on my wise list,but im going with jmfab.....magnus is weak
and im going to be running alot of boost soon.