Let's talk 4G63 Turbo Oil Feed / Supply Locations- ALL TURBO BRANDS

jusmx141 · 02-17-2008, 10:39 PM

I often have customers confront me with the question of where to get their oil supply when buying an upgraded rebuilt turbo from me. As long as it's a TD05H, the answer is simple...but T3's? Holsets?

I know the answers are out there in random threads, but searching for specifics is often difficult and confusing....I wanted to create this thread to help make things easier for those searching.

So let's hear it- where are you getting your oil supply from for your turbocharger? Does it seem to work well?

I understand the factory journal bearing Mitsu turbos get their oil from the head, but is that the ONLY turbo (aside from ball bearings units) that you should supply from the head? Anyone running their Garrett T3's or other journal bearing turbos from the head, and why?

How come all factory Mitsu turbos have their line from the head, but most 2G install kits come with a braided stainless line that goes to the filter housing? If the head is the best source for a Mitsu turbo, why change?

How about restrictors....I know they only restrict volume and not pressure; but are they only needed on ball bearing turbos? If not, when would you use a restrictor for a journal bearing application?

You guys see what I'm getting at. Any input is appreciated in advance!

prostreetdsmx1 · 02-17-2008, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jusmx141

I often have customers confront me with the question of where to get their oil supply when buying an upgraded rebuilt turbo from me. As long as it's a TD05H, the answer is simple...but T3's? Holsets?

I know the answers are out there in random threads, but searching for specifics is often difficult and confusing....I wanted to create this thread to help make things easier for those searching.

So let's hear it- where are you getting your oil supply from for your turbocharger? Does it seem to work well?

I understand the factory journal bearing Mitsu turbos get their oil from the head, but is that the ONLY turbo (aside from ball bearings units) that you should supply from the head? Anyone running their Garrett T3's or other journal bearing turbos from the head, and why?

How come all factory Mitsu turbos have their line from the head, but most 2G install kits come with a braided stainless line that goes to the filter housing? If the head is the best source for a Mitsu turbo, why change?

How about restrictors....I know they only restrict volume and not pressure; but are they only needed on ball bearing turbos? If not, when would you use a restrictor for a journal bearing application?

You guys see what I'm getting at. Any input is appreciated in advance!

Typical rule of thumb is journal bearing = Oil Filter Housing, BB = Head.

The head has siginificantly less oil pressure than the filter housing so ball bearing turbos fail pretty quick with that much pressure while Journals simply don't get enough from the Head.

Most garrett/BorgWarner/Holset turbos will begin to fail quickly when drawn from the head. It will start to smoke quick and then kiss it good bye.

Restrictors help provide a consisent, lower pressure for Ball Bearing turbos. Most of them come with them these days too. If you run a restrictor on a journal turbo pulling from the oil filter housing it will fail.

blcknspo0ln · 02-18-2008, 08:03 AM

Agreed. I run a ss line from the head (with an earl's inline oil filter) to a PTE-supplied restrictor to my BB 5031. If you have your BS removed and did not port your OFH, you have a large chance of running 80+psi through the oil line @ WOT if you feed through the OFH

turboglenn · 02-18-2008, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by preostreetdsmx1

Most Garrett/BorgWarner/Holset turbos will begin to fail quickly when drawn from the head. It will start to smoke quick and then kiss it good bye.

I took a LONG apprenticeship in turbocharger building and machining for custom apps at Majestic Turbo in Waco TX. when Kevin Drapen owned it. And While I agree that a ball bearing turbo needs less oil and pressure. I do not agree with the statement you made above.

I've drawn oil for my T3/4 57 trim hybrid from the head for over 75,000 miles and there's no signs of shaft play yet. My reasoning is if the stock mitsu turbo was going to last 100k miles and was journal bearing and fed from the head, then my Garrett should be just fine ( i am running a 360* thrust bearing in it though). I could easily go get a line made to feed it from the housing, but I've never had an issue at the head yet. A NON-BB turbo needs just enough oil to keep a film on the bearing surfaces (that's why the hole going in has a tiny hole to restrict it and the outlet is huge, so the oil gets out fast and easy), if there's enough oil there for the cams, i believe there's enough for a turbo. Now I'm not sure on the complete path that the oil takes through he head, so some one correct me if I'm way off on something. But like i said 75k + miles so far (probably a lot more honestly) being fed from the head and NO issues.

OH and i beat the living hell out of my car when I'm running it hard, i drive it like a 2 stroke dirt bike. The turbo has lasted through 2 motors and still no in and out shaft play and only enough side to side to be considered in good shape. (remember, no side to side = coked or bad center cartridge)

pballer · 03-08-2008, 09:01 AM

has anyone ever fed a BB GT series such as a GT35R using a supply from the filter housing with the stock 2g oil restrictor? does anyone know the size of the 2g restrictor hole?

prostreetdsmx1 · 03-08-2008, 09:03 AM

I've typically seen the BB's die when pulling from the housing with no restrictor. We are always sure to include a restrictor with each turbo that needs it (BB)

Black95awd · 03-08-2008, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pballer

has anyone ever fed a BB GT series such as a GT35R using a supply from the filter housing with the stock 2g oil restrictor? does anyone know the size of the 2g restrictor hole?

stock 2g is a flare fitting, certainly not a restrictor. if you are running a BB turbo buy the proper fitting. no sense in replacing a turbo when you dont need to.

Black95awd · 03-08-2008, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jusmx141

How come all factory Mitsu turbos have their line from the head, but most 2G install kits come with a braided stainless line that goes to the filter housing? If the head is the best source for a Mitsu turbo, why change?

How about restrictors....I know they only restrict volume and not pressure; but are they only needed on ball bearing turbos? If not, when would you use a restrictor for a journal bearing application?

You guys see what I'm getting at. Any input is appreciated in advance!

2g comes from the filter housing *area* stock. you only need a restictor on a BB turbo, it would cause a journal bearing turbo to fail prematurely

jusmx141 · 03-08-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black95awd

2g comes from the filter housing *area* stock. you only need a restictor on a BB turbo, it would cause a journal bearing turbo to fail prematurely

Correct- but if you buy a 2G install kit for a MHI turbo from some vendors it comes with a hard oil line that connects to the head just as a 1G does, and some come with a braided stainless line to replace the 1/4" flare line that the T25 uses.

The statement of mine that you quoted was asking that if I were installing a MHI turbo on a 2G (replacing the T25) would it be better to go with the housing/braided line or head/hard line. By "factory Mitsu" in my post, I was referring to the MHI turbos on 1G's....not the Garrett's on 2G's.

The whole meaning of this thread was to test the waters and see if anyone had better luck with one location over the other concerning journal bearing and seal life on various turbos.

timloomis · 03-08-2008, 10:58 AM

I think my -04 feed line from the ofh just ate my rebuilt 14b. It has side to side, plus in and out. Balance shafts removed and no porting of the relief valve either. The turbo only had 10-15k on the rebuild, so either the sky-high pressure did it, or the thrust bearing feed hole is plugged or something. A faulty rebuild kit could be at fault too, I dunno.

And I just went back with a stock feed line off the head last week. Blows less oil under boost, but still burns it.

daren_p · 03-08-2008, 11:14 AM

What FP recommends for their FP30 series of turbo's (so I would assume goes for other Garrett GT turbos as well) is too be run from the head & install their inline filter as well which includes a .030" restrictor. This has worked great for me so far.

ILLiCliPSE · 03-08-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daren_p

What FP recommends for their FP30 series of turbo's (so I would assume goes for other Garrett GT turbos as well) is too be run from the head & install their inline filter as well which includes a .030" restrictor. This has worked great for me so far.

Exactly the way I went with my new FP3052

92awddsm · 03-08-2008, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prostreetdsmx1

If you run a restrictor on a journal turbo pulling from the oil filter housing it will fail.

Sorry Martin but I have to disagree with you. With my pte 5252(60-1, stage 5 turbine) I was feeding from the filter housing unrestricted and all I got was slow spool and a smoke show. I ended up restricting the feed to .080" about 2 yrs ago. Turbo still spools quick and no bearing failure to date.

prostreetdsmx1 · 03-08-2008, 05:18 PM

Keith,

I know what you mean. I've seen it work before for people but I've seen it fil a lot more than anything as. As a shop owner I have to error on the side of caution and go with the safe bet.

92awddsm · 03-08-2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prostreetdsmx1

Keith,

I know what you mean. I've seen it work before for people but I've seen it fil a lot more than anything as. As a shop owner I have to error on the side of caution and go with the safe bet.

I totally understand where you are coming from. But coming more from experience and not as a shop owner, you know that with some garrett turbos and a large amount of oil pressure, some sort of restriction may be required in some applications, true?

jusmx141 · 03-09-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92awddsm

I totally understand where you are coming from. But coming more from experience and not as a shop owner, you know that with some garrett turbos and a large amount of oil pressure, some sort of restriction may be required in some applications, true?

I'd like to know this as well.

I rebuilt a Bullseye T04B V-Trim once (Uses a plain Garrett T3 dry CHRA) and resold it and the customer who bought it complained that it burnt oil. He was pulling his oil unrestricted from the filter housing. I got the turbo back and pulled it down and found absolutely NOTHING wrong with the turbine seal or the groove that would cause it to burn oil. I reassembled it and used it on my buddy's 1G pulling from the head and he ran that turbo for 2k miles with no problems.

92awddsm · 03-09-2008, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jusmx141

I'd like to know this as well.

I rebuilt a Bullseye T04B V-Trim once (Uses a plain Garrett T3 dry CHRA) and resold it and the customer who bought it complained that it burnt oil. He was pulling his oil unrestricted from the filter housing. I got the turbo back and pulled it down and found absolutely NOTHING wrong with the turbine seal or the groove that would cause it to burn oil. I reassembled it and used it on my buddy's 1G pulling from the head and he ran that turbo for 2k miles with no problems.

On my car, I have always had to restrict oil feed to the turbo(all garrett chra's) to keep from pushing oil past the seals. I even noticed that it dramatically increased spool time while pushing oil.

majik2k5 · 03-11-2008, 08:25 AM

This is something I've been having some issues with.

Where abouts can you get decent oil restrictors?? I just had a journal bearing 60 trim let go on me, along with another journal bearing 50 trim replacement that's starting to smoke now. Both were fed from the oil filter housing, through an external oil cooler, and then into the turbo. My balance shafts are gone, along with the ported relief valve, so I'm in dire need of a good restrictor. I'm going to try to save my 50 trim on the car now.