Options for 14b turbine (exhaust) housing replacement?

[Daveed]

Take a look at the pic. The cracks on my 14b are so bad around the flapper I can see through and past the wastegate. I'd like to find another exhaust housing (not the O2 housing). Got any leads on new or used ones that aren't cracked?

PS I got a good condition 14b but it didn't come with an exhaust housing. Was just gonna swap mine on there till I noticed the problem.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Is your wastegate flapper welded shut? It looks like it on the bottom of the arm.

 

[JusMX141]

Tap the actuator arm further into the housing (from the outside) where the actuator itself connects to the flapper lever, then port the wastegate hole and install a 34mm flapper.

It's the only cost-effective solution.

 

[Daveed]

Hmmm...hadn't noticed that in the pic. I'll have to go back out and pull that housing back apart to see.

I only drove the car for 10 minutes before the timing belt blew. It actually got to 12psi. I really don't know how with that much leakage past the flapper.WTF

 

[JusMX141]

The reason that happens is the wastegate arm starts to walk out of the housing (as I described in the previous message) and leaves a small gap at the base of the flapper. Once the flapper cannot seal, the hot pressurized air seeps past the flapper and proceeds to eat away at the housing little by little until the hole gets bigger.

The ONLY solution to save this housing is to port the hole and install a bigger flapper:

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[Daveed]

Thanks for the tips. It looks like putting in a new flapper will work.

I went out and checked and the arm is not welded. Sure looked like it till I got a light on the thing

PS My search on flappers was VERY successful in getting tons of info. Just not so much on who to get exhaust housings from. Doesn't matter as a flapper will solve the prob for much less $

Heres a couple more pics.
The first one I put a flashlight behind the flapper and you can see the light coming through (top and rightish areas)
The 2nd one you can REALLY see the cracks.
The 3rd one shows how big a 34mm flapper would be (looks like it will need some clearancing of the casting near the arm (bottom left).

 

[Daveed]

Tap the actuator arm further into the housing (from the outside) where the actuator itself connects to the flapper lever, then port the wastegate hole and install a 34mm flapper.

It's the only cost-effective solution.

How hard do you need to hit the arm to move it in?

 

[JusMX141]

Tap lightly on the button-weld of the actuator lever....your trying to close the gap a little right where your pointer finger is at in the second pic. There's a sleeve pressed into the housing that the actuator lever moves inside....on your housing, that sleeve is walking out. A few taps should get it back into place.

Keep going until the flapper is centered in the wastegate hole again.

Here's the part you'll be needing:
eBay Motors: 34MM WASTEGATE VALVE DSM TURBO ECLIPSE 16G 20G 14B EVO (item 230219124087 end time Feb-06-08 21:01:24 PST)

Just grind the peened head off the old wastegate flapper and it will fall out of the arm. Using the washer from the old flapper, install the new valve and either peen the end to be sure it cannot pass through the lever, or tack-weld it to the washer.

 

[Daveed]

Thanks man! Good info there. Rep'd ya for it

 

[JusMX141]

Thanks bro; much appreciated! I'm always happy to help a fellow DSMer fix their car right without investing much money.


Something I wanted to add is once you're done with the install of the flapper and you're reinstalling the wastegate actuator, be sure there is enough tension on the flapper arm to hold the flapper shut tightly before you button up the project. It may be necessary to add a washer or two under the actuator mount at the compressor housing in order for proper arm tension to be achieved.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Throw that thing out and pick up a used 7cm housing in good condition.

 

[JusMX141]

Good idea, but not a cost-effective one. By the time you find a nice used 7cm2 housing for sale, you'll kill a few days and spend $100 or so. After that you're left porting the manifold to match the 7cm2 housing you just bought....and that's alot of work and money spent for a tired old 14B.

He's on the right track.

 

[dsmconvict]

Throw that thing out and pick up a used 7cm housing in good condition.

I guess it's a good thing I got your old 14b off corey . OP: I'd pick up a new flapper and just port it out if your not looking to spend the money on a new housing.


Chris

 

[Steve93Talon]

A new flapper isn't gonna seal with that level of damage, the valve seat is completely gone. If you don't wanna do the work to match the manifold to a 7cm housing, find another 6cm in decent shape.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Or you could turn it into an external wastegate setup off the o2 housing.

 

[Mr Peepers]

One of my cars came with a 14b housing as bad as that and wouldn't hit 15 psi in first gear until 5k. Putting a new 14b on it since the old one was going out anyway made a world of difference.

As Steve93Talon said, the valve seat is gone. You're better off trying to find a cheap 6cm^2 housing off another 14b or a 7cm^2 housing from a 16g variant. If you are out to really push the limits of the 14b, the 7cm^2 housing is the way to go, otherwise the 6cm^2 is just fine. Spool differences between the two housings are marginal, and surely better than your current housing. As stated, it will only get worse.

 

[Daveed]

Thanks for the input. I'm just looking to get this car running in stock form. I've driven it 10 minutes in the 2.5 years I've owned it
Shockingly I got it up to 12 psi with that turbo on my 10 minute drive WTF.

Now, the turbo in my '97 PSD will hit 27 psi at 3,000rpms and its a stock turbo
Yah, I know turbo vs gas diesels just aint even on the same playing field so I won't make any comparisons

hmmm...that does bring up a turbo related Q: It was suggested to try a larger exhaust housing. Now that will flow more air but also means it shifts my peak boost higher in the rpm range (more lag)...doesn't it? Thats the case on my powerstroke so I would guess its the same deal on any turbo.

 

[1992awdlaser]

You probably won't even notice the extra lag.

 

[tkelly27]

The waste gate isn't really that great of a seal in the first place. A new flapper will probably get you up to stock boost. It's gnarly, but as you found out before, it got you to stock boost levels even when it was that bad, new flapper can only be better.

A junkyard housing will have you right as rain

 

[JusMX141]

hmmm...that does bring up a turbo related Q: It was suggested to try a larger exhaust housing. Now that will flow more air but also means it shifts my peak boost higher in the rpm range (more lag)...doesn't it? Thats the case on my powerstroke so I would guess its the same deal on any turbo.

Don't confuse a housing with larger internal area (volume) measurement alone to one with a larger area/radius measurement. Yes, the housing with larger internal volume MAY add a tiny bit of lag, but as stated above it probably would go unnoticed once you hit boost. All MHI turbine housings for DSM's have the same radius measurement despite different internal area (by volume.)

Here's an explaination of how a housing with a larger area/radius works in relation to a smaller one:

"A/R is the rated volumetric efficiency of a turbos 2 sections, so to speak.

Imagine if you have a garden hose spraying water out at a pinwheel with the hose open ended, the pinwheel spins okay. Put a nozzle on it an the pinwheel will spin like mad. There are issues with the nozzle on the end, you lose volume but gain pressure. With the nozzle off you gain volume, but lose pressure and you can't turn the pinwheel as much.

Simply put, on small displacement engines a smaller A/R is better, on large displacement engine a larger A/R is better due to exhaust volume. A larger A/R will spool later and provide a higher power band, if your engine is capable of reaching the RPMS it should be used in.

You can't cross compare different types of housings and wheels, but if you have a typical T3/TO4E 57 trim with a stage 3 exhaust wheel and a .48 A/R housing, it might have a powerband of 3000-7000, with the .63 it might be 4000-8000, and with a .82 A/R housing it might be 5000-9000. If you have headwork and cams that stop pulling at 8000 RPM's, it's smart to run the .63 A/R housing. If you have a fully ported head and huge cams that will make power till 9000, the .82 A/R housing would be a better choice."

The only additional mod necessary if you'd choose to go with the 7cm2 housing is to port the manifold collector from 6cm2 to match the 7cm2 exhaust housing.

 

[No_Skillz]

Looks like the cracks go pretty far. Might be hard to port so you can try this:

7cm Turbine Housing

Rawr.

 

[dsm-onster]

I'd get a used 7cm^2 turbine housing. The stock 14b turbine wheel with a 7 cm^2 turbine housing flows enough to max out an evo3 16g. You can push a 14b compressor to 33-34 lbs/min. See the compressor map. 0.23m^3/sec = 487cfm ≈ 34lbs/min That's almost 360hp. But, only IF you have a turbine that can flow that much. And the 14b turbine wheel (same as the evo3 16g tubine wheel) and a 7 cm^2 turbine housing certainly is one. Lag will be minimal. I got mine for $50 shipped from the classifieds. . .

It's worth the upgrade. You'll have a potent turbo for $50-$100.

I'm not negating what Justin suggests. It's the cheapest yet still absolutely reliable alternative as far as I'm concerned. But, more turbo for less time invested is always a good thing, too .