Bullseye Power 60-1 Turbo

[1FSTTEALTLN]

So I have been waiting a while for just the right deal to upgrade my turbo and I found it. A used bullseye power 60-1 internally gated 38mm flapper and stainless steel mitsubishi turbine housing. So I got rid of my 14b and bilted this up w/ a ss drain tube and a ss feed line coming off the exhaust housing. I also stepped the injectors up to 880cc while I was @ it.

I figured with this turbo setup on top of a full 3in exhaust, no cat, no egr, no ac, no ps, rewired warlboro 255hp fp, gm maf, 3 inch CAI, 2.5 inch short route intercooler piping, Extreme motorsports FMIC, extreme motorsports MBC, ECU+ piggyback tuning data, Arias 9:1 pistons, and Eagle h-beam rods. I thought i could get quite a few ponies. And really make something of my heavy mods.

Now on my 14b w/ 450cc stock injectors, 93 octane, and 12lbs of boost the car put down 217.3 hp and 213.1 lb/ft and on 18lbs of boost she made 267.8 hp and 255.6 lb/ft. I thought these were pretty good numbers for a cracked 6cm2 turbine housing.

Yesterday I had the car tunned and with the a/f @ an even 11.2:1 all thru the rpm band the car only made 260.0 hp and 252.8 lb.ft. on 20 lbs of boost.

How is this possible? I put over a grand into my car and I loose horsepower and I I don't get full power until 5,000 rpm. something has to be wrong. I need some ideas.http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/images/smilies//logos-eagle.gif

 

[RipperXX]

I know little about this turbo, but I think I might can sudjest some area's to look at.

Are you still on stock cams? how's the ignition timeing looking? Are you still useing a AFC or something similer to try and tune with 880cc injectors?


hopefully a wiseman will come along and be able to help you alot more than me, good luck!


p.s. one last quick thought, for a turbo this size, 20psi isn't much. Maybe thats below it's efficiency range...

 

[wazzelby]

p.s. one last quick thought, for a turbo this size, 20psi isn't much. Maybe thats below it's efficiency range...

This is most likely one reason for the lack of power. I have a Holset HX-40 and it doesn't make any real power until about 25PSI. Larger turbos move more air but aren't efficiently making power until you up the boost. Also, like mentioned before, your stock cams are probably choking this turbo up top (where the bigger turbo likes to make power).
What are you using to tune with? If you installed a larger fuel pump and injectors but no adjustable fuel pressure regulator, then you won't get a good tune.
I think the cams are your biggest restriction though. Your turbo is now trying to make it's power in the upper 5000-6000 RPM range adn the stock cams just don't have it up there. I switched to the FP2's and they REALLY made a difference in my car. Drop in some cams, fuel pressure adjustability and you'll easily break into the 300's!! You allready have a great base with your current mods. With the proper tuning and the above mentioned changes, you'll see 400+HP

 

[fwdeclipse]

Something is wrong with your tune. NO way you make 10 less hp with this turbo at 20psi. Did you log the dyno runs, were you knocking?

 

[IPT]

See if this will help:

First do a compression check and a leak down test. Even if this is a new motor it is possible for the rings to not seat.

Next do a boost leak test.

Your spool seems alittle slow also. Double check the exhaust manifold studs and the turbo to manifold bolts. (make sure your gasket hasn't blown out)

 

[1FSTTEALTLN]

I am using ECU+ tuning that i purchased from mach V motorsports in conjunction with the GM MAF Translator. Now, one thing I did notice when Bill @ Extreme was tuning my car, was that he made NO adjustment to the WOT knob on the Translator box. I don't know if that would change anything, but i thought I should mention that.

I am on stock cams. I knew this would cause this turbo to lag for now, but my 14b was destroyed and needed to go.

I am not using and adjustable FPR yet. I have built 2 other dsms that made more power easier, and did so on Frank. Jr. (smaller) turbos, and stock cams as well. I really didn't think that I would need it yet.

I was not knocking hard at 11.2 : 1 but it was on the brink. I was advised to let it roll before I broke something.

I do however have a broken manifold stud in the head (on the top, closest to the thermostat housing) so I couls be leaking some exhaust, but all of the other gaskets have been replaced and the manifold is an EVO III with no cracks. The only other strange thing that i've noticed is that at idle (which this car hates to do) i only draw 15 in./hg., now i didn't know if that was because of the new pistons or what, but i thought it should draw 20 in./hg.

My cousin has the 60 trim version of this turbo on his car with a motor I assembled for him and mostly the same supporting mods and is making 345 to the ground on 20psi. I was really expecting something and got nothing.

I need help, I am frustrated and it's cold in MD, this is when my car sould run better.

 

[Car Cannibal]

20psi is still enough to make good power on that turbo.

Your tune is really off, running the stock FPR with a rewired 255 walbro is a mistake IMO. Most likely you are really fat down low when you hammer it and the car is probably going to 11:2 at full boost deep into the rpm when the load is highest.
It is a bit deceiving to tune to just the high end a/f ratio.

If you have a wideband, why not post the a/f ratio for 3000, 4000 and 5000 rpm?

What about your low, mid and high trims, what are those?

If you are running the translator you can turn the mid knob counter clockwise and lean out the low end of your spool up.

 

[daren_p]

Well 20 psi may not be alot for that turbo but it still is enough boost to make atleast as much as your 14b did @ 18 psi. First thing that came to mind is the WG flapper may be adjusted to loose as your boost seems to be slow & this could be causing knock due to the extra heat created by working the turbo much higher. This heat & knock could be whats causing the low numbers. Cams will defently help you out alot in the top end but at that kind of power level you made their not a huge restriction (ie shouldn't have a problem making over 300 whp with the stockers). Cams won't help spool, they will make it slightly higher. You said you had an exhaust leak so I get that straightened out & also make sure to do a proper boost leak test. I would also put a proper FPR at the top of your list as the rewired 255 without one defently isn't helping things.

Your vac does seem a little low, have you verified that your boost gauge is working correctly? Also I would make sure its working on the pressure side as well I know my Autometer gauge went from being on to off 4 psi with 2 summers use, mine read low so I was running more boost then I thought I was but that could be ~40 hp right there if yours is reading high. Another area to look at is your timing belt marks, are they all still properly? If a tooth is skipped somewhere this could also explain the low vac, low hp & slow spool.

 

[1FSTTEALTLN]

I'm not using wideband. I still have a stock style O2 sensor. All i did is replace it when I bought the car. So I can't help you there, but I can let you check out the dyno sheet.

Also, keep in mind that if i do lean out the car using the translator, it will reall screw with the car since its already running between 11.2:1 and 11.5:1 from 2,000-7,000 rpms. I cant JUST lean it out. And my gague is working near perfect, i checked it last week on a few cars at work.

Last, I knoticed the wastegate was adjustable, but i never screwed with it. If it is leaking, how would i tighten it?

Thanks guys.

 

[daren_p]

I'm not using wideband. I still have a stock style O2 sensor. All i did is replace it when I bought the car. So I can't help you there, but I can let you check out the dyno sheet.

Also, keep in mind that if i do lean out the car using the translator, it will reall screw with the car since its already running between 11.2:1 and 11.5:1 from 2,000-7,000 rpms. I cant JUST lean it out. And my gague is working near perfect, i checked it last week on a few cars at work.

Last, I knoticed the wastegate was adjustable, but i never screwed with it. If it is leaking, how would i tighten it?

Thanks guys.

To check the WG, first take the clip off (or what ever hold the actuator arm to the flapper) & remove the actuator arm from the flapper. Now look at how the how in the actuator arm lines up with the flapper post when the flapper is in the closed position. The hole in the actuator arm should be located towards the passenger side compared to the flapper arm so that you have to physically pull the actuator arm abit to the drivers side to get it on the flapper arm. Doing this preloads the flapper or puts extra tension on it. To adjust it there probably a locking nut just losen it off and rotate the end to make the actuator arm shorter then lock it back in place. You can have a good amount of preload so play around with it. Pay attention to your boost gauge afterwords to make sure you don't over boost. If you eventually put to much preload on the actuator you will notice you will start to get boost spikes or you can also start to overboost.

If the WG wasn't adjustable you can just add washers between the comp cover & actuator mounting locating to get the desired preload but Im pretty sure all the Bullseye actuators Ive seen were adjustable.

 

[1FSTTEALTLN]

OK, I checked the wg flapper and it was preloaded fine. Looks like i'll be purchasing a fpr. Any other ideas before i start throwing parts at it. Besides fixing the manifold to head stud? Any help is always appreciated.