Big 16g vs. t3/t4 50 trim

[Ginglingston11]

hey guys im trying to decide what setup i wana do. i narrowed it down to a 16g setup or a t3/t4 50 trim setup. according to the sites the 16g will put me in the 12s, and the t3/t4 will put me in the 11s with supporting mods and good tunes. well according to actual results i have noticed guys with the 16g running high 12s and guys with the 50 trim running mid 12s. i dont see why anyone would spend almost another 2000 more to shave off a few tenths of a second. can anyone with stock internals and either those turbos help me out? the only internals i plan on are hks cams and cam gears. i appreciate any help i can get.

 

[xyexz]

16g's will definitely get you to 12's with work like everything else however, 12's have been proven with 14b's as well with minimal mods:
http://dsmtuner.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118744
They are cheaper and are available in classifieds and ebay etc for cheap!
A lot of dsmers want to get 16g or bigger it seems but it's not about bigger turbo's it's about using the power and boost you have to the max, if you've maxed it out then move on that is if it's not enough power for you.
I would honestly look into the 14b tweaking more, (if 12's are all you're looking for), afterall saving money by not getting a bigger turbo can be used elsewhere like restrictive exhaust and weight shaving. 11's have been hit with 14b's I know but I think reliability and tuning get to be a bit shady at that point from what I've heard.
It may not be for you but I thought I'd throw it out there!
Good luck with your turbo endeavors!

 

[GeosTalon]

Exactly what he said. The guy whose got the 50 trim, is it front wheel drive? What's his setup? Running a good quarter isn't just slapping on the biggest turbo you can afford. You need to start with the basics like exhaust, fueling, and getting a method of tuning (I'd HIGHLY recommend DSMLink). See what your car does. Be aware that power is corrupting, and I know few people who experience more of it and say "Yeah, that's enough power".

 

[dsm-onster]

50 trims can flow 50 lbs/min. 50 lbs/min X 10.5 hp per lb/min = 525 crank horsepower.

That's fast! faster than low 12s w/ AWD. Faster than low 11s w/ awd.

Most get 50 trims when they arn't sure what they want to do and want a versatile tubo but only want to make one purchase (this is probably the wisest way to look at it if you're undecided about your goals). I was going 50 trim about a month ago because i didn't know what i wanted... But i sat down and made a plan... and got a 60-1.

Work on getting as fast as you can on what you have. This allows you to determine exactly what you need when it comes time to buy a turbo. 12s are very, very possible on a smaller turbo. But you may not want to buy a 16g only to turn around and want to buy a larger one in a couple of months. A 50 trim is the pump gas king. Of course, you will meet your goal with this turbo. and it is not that much more expensive than a 16g. You'll have plenty of room to get sub 12 second timeslips with this turbo. You may want to skip the 16g phase/power level completely, once you max your current setup out. Buy right, buy once.

I also highly recommend dsmlink for anything under 12s and to give you what you need if you get a 50 trim/20g or better. This should have been my first purchase... Max your car out and determine what you're goal is. If it is never ending (who's isn't), buy bigger instead of smaller. At some point, you'll be looking into cams if you go 50 trim. You've got about a thousand decisions ahead of you.

 

[Ginglingston11]

i really apreciate your help, but dsmonster just nalied it exactly how i feel right now. i only wana dump a bunch of money into my car one especially since its not cheap. and im not sure if i want an 11 second car or a 12 second. im probably gona end up going with the t3/t4 50 trim, but at this point i just dont wana rebuild my motor.

 

[daren_p]

Can you run 12's with a 16g? yes no problem, you can run 11's but this isn't on a street tune. You need lots of boost, like 25 psi+ & race gas. You don't need to go with a complete t3/t4 50 trim for your goal. There are alot of bolt on 50 trims that will get you there and save some cash doing it. Now the mitsu bolt on turbine housing wont have the same potential as a similar t3/t4 to get the max power out of the turbo. I would sit down & think about what you want then go one turbo larger . I say this because it seems like what ever you think you want origionally, once you have it you want bigger. My origional goal was just to be faster then my old mans corvette and around 350 hp. Well thats done & now I want a bigger turbo

 

[Tx97GSX]

I don't understand why you keep on saying t3/t4 50trim. What's the point of spending all that money for a new manifold+the turbo when you can get a perfectly good bolt on 50trim. Now you say you don't know if you want a 12sec or 11sec car, well a 50trim can do both. If you don't want to go that fast then lower down the boost, it's as easy as that. Trust me you will be sorry if you get a 16g. Lots of people say that all they want is around 300hp when they first start modding but the modding bug will hit you and you will want to go faster. I have said that myself when I first got my B16g and since then about 5years or so ago I have moved up to a 20g and now a FP Red.

 

[dsm-onster]

I would sit down & think about what you want then go one turbo larger .

. . . Words of wisdom.

 

[GeosTalon]

I have said that myself when I first got my B16g and since then about 5years or so ago I have moved up to a 20g and now a FP Red.

It is a vicious circle indeed. You can never seem to just hit the goal of "fast enough".

There are a lot more turbos on the market today for DSM's than three years ago. The last thing you should look at is the turbo. Look at all of the supporting mods that you are going to need and get them out of the way now. Remember that upping the power is going to break things. That just never seems to click with some folks (not that you are one of them).

 

[Ultimatedsm]

If you want low end torque with good top end get the e16g, if you want highway monster power get the 50 trim. Both can get you into the 11's but it will be easier with the 50 trim to do that .

 

[napkinthief]

It is a vicious circle indeed. You can never seem to just hit the goal of "fast enough".

There are a lot more turbos on the market today for DSM's than three years ago. The last thing you should look at is the turbo. Look at all of the supporting mods that you are going to need and get them out of the way now. Remember that upping the power is going to break things. That just never seems to click with some folks (not that you are one of them).

I am going to have to disagree with your theory and say pick the turbo first, then get the supporting mods for how much boost you want to run. There is no need to buy a 1:1 afpr and a 255 walbro if all you need is a safc and a 190. There can be more money lost in over upgrading your current supporting mods than spent on a turbo too big.

 

[GeosTalon]

I am going to have to disagree with your theory and say pick the turbo first, then get the supporting mods for how much boost you want to run. There is no need to buy a 1:1 afpr and a 255 walbro if all you need is a safc and a 190. There can be more money lost in over upgrading your current supporting mods than spent on a turbo too big.

If you pick the turbo first, you run the risk of grenading your setup. You do want to balance your mods out, but I don't know of anyone that's using a 190 pump. If you buy the 255 now, it's cheaper than buying a 190 and finding out that it isn't enough.

And the stock FPR is 1:1 (and every one available for these the cars); one pound additional fuel pressure per pound of boost. Unless you are talking about the NT, where you'd want to run an adjustable scale FPR.

Unless you are talking about the actual selection of the turbo as it pertains to the necessary mods, not installation.

 

[daren_p]

And the stock FPR is 1:1 (and every one available for these the cars); one pound additional fuel pressure per pound of boost. Unless you are talking about the NT, where you'd want to run an adjustable scale FPR.

Yes Im sure he knows how the stock regulator works. I think he mentioned the aftermarket 1:1 afpr because he was talking about the 255 pump vs the 190. With the 255 pump you need an adjustable fpr as it will overrun the stock unit, whereas the 190 will work with the stock unit .

 

[BlackHawkAWD91]

I've owned both the b16g and 50trim so maybe I can help. 16g spool up was great. I ran a best of 7.9@90 MPH in the 1/8 at 27PSI droping to 25. That was highest I could get it to go. This was on my stock eng, stock intake manifold with HKS 264/272 cams, tuning on SAFC. I never got a 1/4 mile run, but if you go to dsmtimes.org you will see a 90 in the 1/8 guys have run high 11's in the 1/4.
The 50trim spoolup is still good, but not like the 16g. My best 1/8 mile trap has been 98 and 1/4 mile at 122. This was at 27-28 PSI, internal gate, max it would hold.

I have a external setup this year also added a sheetmetal and dsmlink. I would like to make a 10.99 or better pass on the 50trim because if you look at dsmtimes or the 1/4 list on dsmtuners, no one is posting 50trim 10 second passes. Not sure why.

Hope this helps, one thing to remember is this was on a 1g.

RoB :

 

[GeosTalon]

Perhaps not many people are running a 50 trim? What injectors are you running on your setup?

 

[sbiggi]

I've had a small 16g and now have a PTE 50 trim.

The 16g was fun, hit hard and early.
With the 50 trim I have more lag, but it is way more fun and pulls to redline.
I had all the supporting mods before I bought the 50 trim.

I'm at 6000 ft above sea level, so I only get 16g performance out of my 50trim.... hence my 1/4 mile time.

I'll be in the 11's here in a couple of weeks hopefully. I'm driving down to Phoenix which is 1200ft, cant wait to haul some ass. Hopefully I dont break anything and can drive it back home.

-Seth

 

[GeosTalon]

Good luck on your run in Phoenix.

I've had a T3/T4 45 trim and 60 trim, but they weren't on a DSM; they were on my 1.8T VW. The 45 trim was great, I'd probably equate it to a B16g; fast spooling, very responsive. I upgraded to a 60 trim back in December, definitely more lag, but the power came on smooth and the car really hauled (80-140 in 13 seconds whilst I was tuning it).

It's preference on where you want your power curve.