T4 Setup on a Galant VR4

[SpoOLxExO]

Hey y'all! I was pondering the idea of running a T4 series Turbo on my car during my buildup.

Heres a little background info:

1. I am well supported.

-Ross/Eagle Combo Shortblock.

-Brand New-mitsu everything on the side.

-33"x12"x4" Garrett Bar/Plate core.

-1000cc PTE's.

-Twin in-tank 255 Walbros.

- Dash 6 AN lines.

-Stock head/ Cams.

-3" Stainless exhaust/ 3.0" stainless charge piping.

-Top-mount, Custom schedule 10 conduit pipe T4 Manifold.

-I do NOT cry about lag, or response.

-Stock 2.0 displacement, revving to 9000rpm

-Peak power is whats most important to me on pump fuel.

-I am fabricating all this myself. Doing this saves money. Please do not tell me to go with a GT turbo as I am far too poor for that.

Now, with that said. I have been doing a little T4 Homework and it seems there are three really good choices:

-T66

-T67

-GT40

Now, the compressor efficiency and whatnot I have down solid.

I guess what I am really asking is who has experience with a T4 equipped 2.0 and on what hot-side did you use?

I have searched and it seems that there are a few arguments between with hot-side is better when it comes to straight T4.

 

[Slippi84]

Tunning????


I think you have the right idea in your wish list with the gt32R it will get you well over 600hp and be verry efficent on pump even though your pump numbers won't in anyway satisfy you after 600hp. FP3065 is a great turbo to and has the duall ball bearing center section too.

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

Personally if you dont care about lag, id go with the gt42 or the fp3575. I cant really give you any advice cause i dont really know what your looking for.

 

[SpoOLxExO]

I guess to narrow it down even more I would like to hear a few T4 equipped owners chime in if they could.

A good price, and what hotside would best suit a 2.0 and 9K RPM is the real question.

I have seen Pheonix Turbo selling a To4R for like $960 or something.

I am pretty new to sizing out T-series stuff I have to admit...

Oh and tuning is relative at this point. I'd like to do some math before I decide on that.

 

[Slippi84]

I have a gt14 which is simlar to a gt32r which made 620whp on sbrs car so I know what your lookin for man. To do you even one better I run it on a 2.0 so i can tell you how lag is.

 

[jo1]

I'm running PTE SC61 with an AR .70 P trim hot side, full boost around 5000rpm at 20psi and pull hard to the 9000rpm. A few of my friend running a T67 with P trim but different AR on the hot side. one with an AR .58 and the other with AR .70. I'm more happy with an AR .70 hot side because it has more lag and power. All of us is FWD so we need the lag for traction. Most definitely you will need a cam to support the turbo.

 

[GVR4592]

I don't know if you are completely opposed to a T3 turbine housing but FP has their T3/T67 that uses a .82 a/r housing and a p-trim turbine wheel. Many people have made over 600whp with it. You will also need cams and a sheet metal intake manifold to really be able to use a large turbo, or else you will have a very peaky powerband. Power will also fall of at a fairly low rpm and at a very high rate without them. I'm not sure if you know this but Galant VR4's have a lot less room for larger turbo's (T4) than dsm's. The radiator is a lot closer to the turbo. I'm not saying it won't fit, it's just going to be tight depending on how your manifold is made. You say you want the most power on pump gas, but a really large turbo isn't ideal for pump gas because it takes very high pressure ratios to move that much air. Andre (dre99gsx) made 503 awhp with a T3/TO4 50 trim. You can't really get much higher than that with a 2.0 liter on pump gas and no nitrous.

 

[SpoOLxExO]

I don't know if you are completely opposed to a T3 turbine housing but FP has their T3/T67 that uses a .82 a/r housing and a p-trim turbine wheel. Many people have made over 600whp with it.

I'm not hot on the idea of stuffing a T4 wheel in a large T3 housing. The same reason why I wouldn't want to run a DSM Bolt-on style GT35R. Why run wheels in housings that were never designed to run in. Thats just me.

I do whut I wawnt!

You will also need cams and a sheet metal intake manifold to really be able to use a large turbo, or else you will have a very peaky powerband. Power will also fall of at a fairly low rpm and at a very high rate without them.

I don't need them, although you can't hurt w/o it.

I'm not sure if you know this but Galant VR4's have a lot less room for larger turbo's (T4) than dsm's. The radiator is a lot closer to the turbo. I'm not saying it won't fit, it's just going to be tight depending on how your manifold is made.

Really? I had no idea? Considering I fab everthing myself, and own a Galant now this never came to mind!

I'm jus playin!

You say you want the most power on pump gas, but a really large turbo isn't ideal for pump gas because it takes very high pressure ratios to move that much air.

Huge airflow, lots of fuel, and clamped timing will do that trick. Don't worry about me though I'll be ok.

Andre (dre99gsx) made 503 awhp with a T3/TO4 50 trim. You can't really get much higher than that with a 2.0 liter on pump gas and no nitrous.

I've heared of Dre. Nice numbers, but I'm not trying to go t3 like I said.

And that Can;t really get higher numbers thing you said, well I'd like to prove you wrong on that one!

I guess that the .58 A/R hotside will give me the strongest AWD powerband compared to the .70 witch is more suided to FWD.

Isn't that what you said Jo1?!?

Any non-racecar T4 users like to chime in?

 

[jo1]

for me AR .70 and above would be a choice if lag is not a matter

 

[nanokpsi]

I run a pt67 with .68 t4 backside. With the p trim I see 24 psi in 3r gear by about 5500rpm on a stock 2g motor. I am all for a big hotside to make power on pump, but you also need the other airflow mods like a nice set of cams and a SMIM. On a 2.0, a 65 lb/min whell is plenty. I would get a t65 with the .58 ar t4 hotside. The t350 wheel would spool up better but you could also run the p-trim.

 

[SpoOLxExO]

okay, it seems that there are good deals on GT4082 on the net, and also good deals on the T04S 60-1.

Does it seem right that the old, outdated 60-1 does better airflow then the 50 trim GT40?

Maybe I am not reading it right, or got a bunk compressor map....

T4 guys, standup!

 

[jo1]

okay, it seems that there are good deals on GT4082 on the net, and also good deals on the T04S 60-1.

Does it seem right that the old, outdated 60-1 does better airflow then the 50 trim GT40?

Maybe I am not reading it right, or got a bunk compressor map....

T4 guys, standup!

If you intend to upgrade it once maybe a TO4R/T67 is a good choice.... it been listed at below 1K at a few website but you will need a tunning tool to spool the turbo with a bigger hotside. Right now, one of our car using AR .84 T4 hotside and he never complain about excessive lag . Do you DD your car? a bulletproff manifold is needed. Cast manifold from ongreen will be a good choice for clearence issue with the radiator fan. Most of my friend running it with their T4 except me using DNP .

 

[aadperformance]

If interested I have a buddy selling a complete T67 with only 17 miles on it. He only used it once on the dyno and then drove around town for a few miles. He dynoed at 550awhp with 1.5 hours of tuning and its not even close to being maxed yet. He's going bigger so he is selling now.

 

[SpoOLxExO]

Yeah, I saw that on GVR4.org

Unfortunately I already bought a GT40, and I am TIG welding all piping w/ 304ss this weekend here.

Do you have any more pics of that setup!? At the least I would like to setup a data-base of all T4 Powered GVR4's!

I'll let everyone interested know when the setup is tuned down here at F1DYNO in Portland Maine.

 

[dsm-onster]

If you don't mind me asking, why do you want ot rev to 9,000 rpms with the stock cams. Do you have adjustable cam gears? Just wondering .

Since you said:

-Peak power is whats most important to me on pump fuel.

...I think that you would really appreciate a set of FP2sl.

 

[SpoOLxExO]

Agreed.

I never said I wouldn't *get cams, or keep the stock tb or intake manifold for that matter.

First round is to see what the bone stock top-end will generate with this type of turbo setup.

I want to make a few rounds of upgrades, to monitor the progress closely.

 

[dsm-onster]

Agreed.

I never said I wouldn't *get cams, or keep the stock tb or intake manifold for that matter.

First round is to see what the bone stock top-end will generate with this type of turbo setup.

I want to make a few rounds of upgrades, to monitor the progress closely.

AAHH! I see. Yes. Good idea!

 

[Reese92tsi]

I run a T4 hotside on my Bullseye t04b 60 trim, specs are P trim .68a/r, and I'm using an ssautochrome T4 manifold w/ Tial 38. Simply put, this hotside is awesome. This thing smokes all of 1st, all of 2nd. all of 3rd, and half of 4th at just 22psi. Unfortunately I couldn't get any hard numbers due to the stock flywheel exploding ruining 1000.00+ bucks worth of parts .

 

[SpoOLxExO]

how does the 38mm gate do with keeping the T4 Exhaust flow under control?

Flywheel exploded? I am sorry about that.

The Galant I own, was involved in a flywheel explosion and hit the wall at New England Dragway.

Did much more than $1000 damage.

The sunroof glass, the hood, bellhousing, BR550 turbo got wrecked, Aluminum Rad, which pissed all over the track, and made the car spinout and touch the wall.

SFI Approved flywheel and one of Harry's (www.three-speed.com) Stainless Steel Scatter Shields will be on my To-do list here as well.

Anyways, the .68 hotside is that divided? Wheres boost coming in at?

 

[Reese92tsi]

The Tial 38 did a wonderful job at controlling boost even in 30degree weather, the manifold was flanged for one of their knockoff Tial 46mm gates so I simply welded a 38mm flange over the 46mm flange to avoid having to buy an expensive tial 46 or buying one of their knockoff 46mm gates. I haven't payed careful attention to where boost exactly comes in at because i'm usually more concerned with my surroundings but this combination was very streetable and spoolup was suprisingly quick considering it was a full T4. The turbine housing was undivided/tangential. In first gear full boost would be reached around 6000 then it would instantly peg 8500, in second the rpms would INSTANTLY climb to 7500 then at that point the tires would break loose and peg 8500, in third the tires would break loose around 6500 and basically 3rd was a repeat of 2nd, in fourth the tires would just burn as soon as throttle was applied (NOT a chirp, or bark). Flywheel explosions are very devastating. I was doing a 4th gear pull/datalog on the highway then at the top of fourth the tires broke loose then all of a sudden BOOM, the car was shot onto the median area and went out of control kinda like yours did. After countersteering and regaining control I said to myself WTF . I popped the hood and found my 60 trim split clean in half, the starter, battery, input shaft, water neck, water pipe, radiator, intake pipe, GM MAF were completely obliterated . Within the next two weeks I'll be the proud owner of a 91 GVR4 and all remaining unmangled parts will be swapped over to the Galant . The turbine housing, manifold, and wastegate were unharmed so I'll probably order a GT40 standard bearing chra w/comp housing from AGP. My knowledge of the GVR4 platform is limited so I have a few questions. Are they as heavy as 2G AWDs? Does the second gear come with dual cone syncro assembly? Where can I buy a triple pillar gauge pod for a GVR4?

Which turbine wheel are you running on your GT40? What manifold are you running? I just looked at your profile and D**N you're running a .98 housing, seems kind of big but I hope it works out good for you.

BTW thanks for the link

 

[SpoOLxExO]

My knowledge of the GVR4 platform is limited so I have a few questions.

Sure thing!

Are they as heavy as 2G AWDs?

I got my GVR4 down to 3150 w/ me in it by:

Removing the AWS

Sound deadning

various metal plates, brackets

Small battery

Stock 4-lug and 15" wheels

etc...

Does the second gear come with dual cone syncro assembly?

Yes. The big thing with the Galant Trans is that the Galant has a longer wheelbase then DSM. So to make driving the Long-wheelbase AWD Galant easier off the traffic tip, they added a Longer First Gear. Instead of maxing out at 30 mpg, the GVR4 1st gear will do 40+

Where can I buy a triple pillar gauge pod for a GVR4?

I have a Dual Gauge a-pillar That I will trade you straight up for your stock one actually!

Which turbine wheel are you running on your GT40? What manifold are you running? I just looked at your profile and D**N you're running a .98 housing, seems kind of big but I hope it works out good for you.

Its the Divided .94 A/R actually. 76mm turbine wheel.

I got a custom true-divided Stainless steel Top-mounted header w/ 3" Stainless piping for the in and out.

Divided makes the actuall A/R a 1/3 smaller about.

So if you got a .68 A/R tangential and a .82 A/R divided they are abou tthe same as far as spool up, top end etc.

BTW thanks for the link

No worrys mon! Anything I can do for ya, just pm!

 

[Reese92tsi]

Ohhh, you're running a GT4082. I'm kinda confused on the specs of this turbo, sites that sell this turbo rate it at 650-680hp but looking at the compressor map shows max airflow at 55lb/min which is a little shy of 680hp. A guy on the RX-7 forums bought this turbo and claimed that the actual wheel specs were different from whats listed. The listed specs on the compressor are 58mm inducer 82mm exducer but when he mic'd the wheel the measurements were 65mm inducer 92mm exducer plus he found the turbine wheel specs to be off (different number of blades than a standard GT40 turbine wheel). Once I get out of school today i'm gonna call around and see if I can find the ACTUAL wheel specs before I invest in this turbo.

"I got a custom true-divided Stainless steel Top-mounted header"
Would a standard header w/ GT4082 have major fitment problems in the GVR4 engine bay?

 

[SpoOLxExO]

55 lbs/min is way shy of 650hp, but the max efficiency doesn't denote that that is the max airflow.

A 60-1 will make 600hp even thought its rated for less.

You also have to crank the boost to get that much airflow. Also Turbine sizing is taken into consideration.

That same 60-1 won't make 600hp on a .48 T3 housing.

Either way, I got this turbo so I can swap a 40R CHRA later on.

 

[jo1]

I am all for a big hotside to make power on pump,

Unless the turbine housing is the bottle neck for more power, Where it make a different when you running bigger hot side with pump gas and smaller hotside with racing gas?

I already know racing gas is more resistant to knocking..... so you can running higher ignition for more power.

 

[GVR4592]

I got my GVR4 down to 3150 w/ me in it

What else have you done to lighten your Galant besides what you listed?