Dre did 503 Whp on AWD dyno 93 octane

[nowayout]

here the link might be old news by now?
http://www.twingles.com/ideck/engine/503whp441torqueDynoAGPt3t4.jpg


93 octane.
Mods:

AGP "Dre-Spec" 50trim
Bone Stock 1g head
8.5:1 ross/eagle 6bolt block 2.0l
Magnus sheetmetal Intake
272s, degreed to my liking
custom made 3.5" turbo back
"Powered by Home Depot" intake
28" Spearco FMIC
93 octane only (got the receipt from last night and my buddy Thuran who saw me pump good ole' Mobil 93octane)
Boost dropping down to 26psi by 7500rpm
AEM EMS tuned to the bone by yours truely

There is more, but nothing interesting to you all... What did I change from 466 to 503? Nothing much. I still made close to 460 @ 7300rpm, just like long time ago. But playing with many small things (especially tuning), I raised my hp much lower in the powerband, and raised the torque considerably.

 

[cait sith]

Very nice.

I like how at 4500 exactly, things go from this smooth powerband to BOINGINBIGINBIOGIBNG.

Rawking. Tuning is everything with these cars.

 

[98TsiAWD]

I'd be happy to get 400whp out of mine.

 

[Ben K]

A big congrats to Andre. He can really make it all work.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

i wonder what he would do on racegas

 

[dsm1kenobe]

Originally posted by Ben K
A big congrats to Andre. He can really make it all work.

Ben,

What exactly is the Dre-spec turbo? Is it a 50-trim derivative?

 

[Ben K]

It's a "Dre-Spec" turbo combination, that's all I will say about the specs.

You can purchase the same kit that Dre is running, *********mod edit*******

Please dont post prices online, refer to vendor rules:http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/misc.php?s=&action=faq&page=4#vendorrules

 

[kpt4321]

Can you tell us anything about it? I starts to matter, when we're wanting to make big power, if he made 500 whp on a 50 trim, or a GT wheel, or something else.

Ten bucks says it has a nice free-flowing hot side, none of the typical DSM 7cm^2 shit.

 

[Ben K]

Ok, it does use a 50 trim compressor wheel.

 

[dsm1kenobe]

Originally posted by Ben K
Ok, it does use a 50 trim compressor wheel.

and a stage II TW, and 4-bolt, .82 A/R hotside ??

 

[vertGST]

damn. i wish i had money to put into my car. i am barely past 200 probably

 

[Ben K]

Originally posted by dsm1kenobe
and a stage II TW, and 4-bolt, .82 A/R hotside ??

Nope, but good guess.

 

[Mike 99GSX]

Originally posted by Ben K
Nope, but good guess.

I'll go with a stage 5 wheel in the .82 A/R

 

[dsm1kenobe]

Originally posted by Mike 99GSX
I'll go with a stage 5 wheel in the .82 A/R

Have you tried this combo?

I don't think you need that much turbine wheel for a 50 trim. I'd go stage 3, in a .82 A/R for a 50 trim. IMO, Stage 5 would be for CWs that are 60 trim and bigger.

 

[Ben K]

Still wrong.

Buy one, then you can measure it and tell the world.

 

[greathuskie]

what all does the dre spec turbo come with (as far as anything besides the turbo?)

 

[dsm1kenobe]

Originally posted by greathuskie
what all does the dre spec turbo come with (as far as anything besides the turbo?)

http://www.agpturbo.com/kit.htm

From the AGP website:

Includes: AGP/SFP T3 manifold, TiAL 38 or New Style Turbonetics Deltagate, Stainless Steel dump tube, 57 or 60 trim T3/T4, 2.5" Stainless Steel O2 housing, oil feed line, oil drain tube, gaskets, nuts, and bolts. Available turbine housings - .48, .63, .82, 1.06 A/R ratios. Available turbine wheels - 76 trim T31, 76 trim T350, O trim T4, P trim T4.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Originally posted by Black95TSIawd
i wonder what he would do on racegas

Probably not much more The more efficient a setup as a whole is, the less one wouldneed race gas. Pump gas becomes less of a steback. Judging by his comment that his boost was "dropping to 26 psi" he is outflowing the turbo, and one would have to be to make that much whp on a 50 trim, so race gas wont allow him to turn up the boost. He will however gain some power from running more timing, as I believe he likes to run around 13-14 degrees. I go as low as 16 (for 25 psi on pump), but I dont go much lower. Seems counterproductive, but Dre is proof that it works

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by 95GSXracer
He will however gain some power from running more timing, as I believe he likes to run around 13-14 degrees.

Believe it or not, he runs even less than that! I think it's somewhere around 8 degrees at WOT.

I bet that race gas would let him get some more timing advance, and thus some more power.

 

[Rogue_Ant]

Originally posted by kpt4321
Believe it or not, he runs even less than that! I think it's somewhere around 8 degrees at WOT.

I bet that race gas would let him get some more timing advance, and thus some more power.

More timming advance doesn't alwayse equate to more power....

Rogue

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Here is how timing works (Note the spelling). More timing will make more power up to a certain point through increased mechanical advatnage from using all of the power "stroke" to drive the piston down. Too much will get the combustion process started too early, causing knock, high cylinder pressure that can blow HGs, etc. So you reach a point of diminishing return, especially in a turbo car. 8 degrees is WAY below that point. Its in the mid-upper 20s somewhere. On NT cars its up in the mid 30s or higher. So to say that going from 8 degrees to say, 20 degrees, wouldnt cuase an increase in power is absurd. Provided that increase doesnt cause knock, which is why this discussion was in the context of using race gas.

If he was already at 20 something degrees, it would make sense to say that more timing may not equal more power. Lets not just repeat things we have read on the internet without understanding the concept and considering the context in which we are speaking. Thats how misinformation is spread around

 

[Rogue_Ant]

Originally posted by 95GSXracer
Here is how timing works (Note the spelling). More timing will make more power up to a certain point through increased mechanical advatnage from using all of the power "stroke" to drive the piston down. Too much will get the combustion process started too early, causing knock, high cylinder pressure that can blow HGs, etc. So you reach a point of diminishing return, especially in a turbo car. 8 degrees is WAY below that point. Its in the mid-upper 20s somewhere. On NT cars its up in the mid 30s or higher. So to say that going from 8 degrees to say, 20 degrees, wouldnt cuase an increase in power is absurd. Provided that increase doesnt cause knock, which is why this discussion was in the context of using race gas.

If he was already at 20 something degrees, it would make sense to say that more timing may not equal more power. Lets not just repeat things we have read on the internet without understanding the concept and considering the context in which we are speaking. Thats how misinformation is spread around

Bear in mind that pressure rise on the compression side of the stroke is negative power. The only reason the plug is fired before TDC is to compensate for ignition delay (which is up to 10 degrees longer for highly leaded fuels) and the fact that the charge is not, initially at least, burning as fast as we may like it to.

So I would say that with a fast burning fuel (regular pump), very high combustion pressures, good quench area, and overall a good setup, that might be where his engine likes to be at. And if so, then more advance would prob not net him anything, because of the pumping loss from trying to compress the burn.

Rogue

 

[Kevin Jewer]

If the pressure rises significantly on the compresion stroke, we'll knock like hell. These arent NT motors. Effective compression at the airflow numbers one would be running at 500 whp is huge, and the charge temp is well over what it owuld be on a NT setup. You'd knock long before you made much "negative power." I understand what you are saying, I just dont think its the case, espeically considering how ridiculously low 8 degrees is. How much air you can flow is what ulitmately determines how much power you can make on a given setup. Timing takes a back seat to boost here. So you run as much as you cna get away with without knocking. I personally would not feel comfortable with over ~18-20 degrees advance at the 50 or so lbs/min Dre must be at, on pump gas. But that doesnt mean that more timing wouldnt give you more power, if you could get away with it without knocking. Its all part of the big compromise. If his car "likes" to be at 8 degrees, that means he knocks if he goes any higher. You could run more timing at the expense of boost/airflow, but that always equals a reduction in power output in my personal experience. Additionally, running really low timing on my setup has given me problems with bruning the fuel. Especially on race gas. If I go below 14 degrees it wants to misfire on leaded fuel. But that could just be specific to my setup, or perhaps he has found a way around it, I'm not sure. I'll bet hes at least not on stock ignition. Running more timing will get me a much better "sounding" exhaust note and ARF actually leans out a bit which backs up my theory. But 90% of the time running this extra timing requires that I drop boost to 23-24 psi, and power drops along with the drop in airflow. All part of this shyte compromise we find ourselves in.

I understand your point about the race gas vs pump gas burn rate, but everything I have seen says that the different is not significant. Though maybe at that extreme end of the scale, its exagerated. Some of what I have seen with my car (mentioned above) does seem to back up this idea. Its a good point, and i'll certainly keep it in mind

 

[Rogue_Ant]

Originally posted by 95GSXracer
If the pressure rises significantly on the compresion stroke, we'll knock like hell. These arent NT motors. Effective compression at the airflow numbers one would be running at 500 whp is huge, and the charge temp is well over what it owuld be on a NT setup. You'd knock long before you made much "negative power." I understand what you are saying, I just dont think its the case, espeically considering how ridiculously low 8 degrees is. How much air you can flow is what ulitmately determines how much power you can make on a given setup. Timing takes a back seat to boost here. So you run as much as you cna get away with without knocking. I personally would not feel comfortable with over ~18-20 degrees advance at the 50 or so lbs/min Dre must be at, on pump gas. But that doesnt mean that more timing wouldnt give you more power, if you could get away with it without knocking. Its all part of the big compromise. If his car "likes" to be at 8 degrees, that means he knocks if he goes any higher. You could run more timing at the expense of boost/airflow, but that always equals a reduction in power output in my personal experience. Additionally, running really low timing on my setup has given me problems with bruning the fuel. Especially on race gas. If I go below 14 degrees it wants to misfire on leaded fuel. But that could just be specific to my setup, or perhaps he has found a way around it, I'm not sure. I'll bet hes at least not on stock ignition. Running more timing will get me a much better "sounding" exhaust note and ARF actually leans out a bit which backs up my theory. But 90% of the time running this extra timing requires that I drop boost to 23-24 psi, and power drops along with the drop in airflow. All part of this shyte compromise we find ourselves in.

I understand your point about the race gas vs pump gas burn rate, but everything I have seen says that the different is not significant. Though maybe at that extreme end of the scale, its exagerated. Some of what I have seen with my car (mentioned above) does seem to back up this idea. Its a good point, and i'll certainly keep it in mind

Glad to see your open minded. Most people don't _really_ understand the combustion process. So I tend to just keep quiet, so I don't have to get into an arguement....
The whole point of advance is to get the charge burning.
The faster the charge can be burned the higher the compression (dynamic, i.e. boost) the cylinder will stand.

Rogue

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by Rogue_Ant
The whole point of advance is to get the charge burning.
Rogue

The point of advance is to get the time of maximum cylinder pressure as close to optimal (I think ~20 degrees ATDC?) as possible.

Dre is UNDOUBTABLY not that early, so more advance would work great, if he was using nice slow-burning race fuel.