Need timing help.

[90AWDTalon]

I've got 680cc PTE injectors at 50psi, using maft for tuning. My settings are base = 7, idle = 2, mid = 1, and WOT =f. Before I installed the injectors I retarded the timming some. I was able to get the car tuned fairly decently. It was very cold when I was doing my tuning before. I was getting alot of timing advance under boost, as high as 25, with no knock. It has warmed up recently and I was starting to get some mild knock when the timing would get up to 24 or 25. I tried retarding the timing some, but the car ran like shit, missing really bad at idle. Just to see what would happen I set the timing back to stock. The car idled and ran great, much better than the previous tunning I had done. Now when I go WOT I'm getting insane timing for a second then tons of knock. The timing was even high after being retarded by knock, 12 timing with 38 knock. Even with all this knock the car felt stronger than my previous settings.

My question is, is there some way to retard timing only while under boost short of going stand alone or an emanage? I wouldn't mind having an emanage but by the time you buy the main unit, support tools, and ignition harness its $500. I can't afford this right now and probably cant for quite some time. I also found the MSD DIS units that have programable timing, I didn't find a whole lot of info on how they work, and there kind of spendy.

In the mean time I'm going to retard the base timing again, but I want this to only be a temp solution.

 

[90AWDTalon]

Also, could some one give me or point me to a tutorial on how timing works? I think I understand how it works, but I think I might be over thinking it and getting myself confused.

 

[90AWDTalon]

Here's my latest log, check out the timing vs. knock. Is it just me or is that alot of timing for so much knock?

For this log I went back to my original amount of retard on the base timing and tried adding alittle fuel at WOT to compensate for the knock, and alittle at idle to get it to idle better. I ended up knocking even more under boost, the idle was improved though. Next I'll try a very small amount of additional base timing retard and adding some fuel at idle to compensate.

RPM Knock Timing O2 Inj P/W TPS
4781 0 38 0.8 6.154 100
5156 0 30 0.84 10 100
5438 0 27 0.92 13.59 100
5656 0 24 0.92 14.872 100
6000 6 23 0.9 14.872 100
6312 10 19 0.9 14.615 100
6625 10 19 0.92 14.359 100
6688 10 18 0.92 13.846 100
7000 10 17 0.92 13.59 92
7250 10 17 0.92 13.077 53
7469 10 19 0.92 6.923 11
7000 9 36 0.71 2.564 11
6531 0 45 0.69 1.795 11
6031 0 45 0.65 1.282 11
5625 0 45 0.63 1.282 11
5469 0 45 0.61 1.282 77
5188 0 38 0.06 5.128 100
4781 0 31 0.02 7.436 100
4000 1 28 0.88 8.205 100
4375 1 27 0.9 11.026 100
4531 7 20 0.92 13.846 100
4531 6 18 0.92 14.615 100
4781 6 18 0.92 14.872 100
5000 6 18 0.9 14.872 100
5062 6 19 0.92 14.872 100
5312 5 20 0.9 14.615 100
5344 5 21 0.9 14.615 100
5594 5 22 0.9 14.359 100
5594 6 22 0.9 14.359 100
5688 6 22 0.9 14.359 100
5969 12 20 0.9 14.359 100
6062 12 21 0.9 14.359 100
6188 12 21 0.9 14.359 100
6094 19 18 0.9 14.872 100
6375 19 17 0.9 14.615 100
6438 19 18 0.9 14.615 100
6375 18 16 0.9 14.615 100
6594 18 16 0.9 14.615 100
6500 18 15 0.9 14.615 100
6750 19 14 0.9 14.359 61
6906 19 14 0.92 8.462 11
6344 19 36 0.67 2.564 11
5969 5 43 0.63 1.795 11
5500 0 45 0.59 1.282 89
5469 0 36 0.04 5.641 100
4812 0 30 0.02 7.949 100
4656 1 25 0.88 11.026 100
4656 8 19 0.9 14.103 100
4656 8 17 0.9 14.615 100
4781 7 17 0.9 14.615 100
4781 7 17 0.9 14.615 100
4812 7 17 0.9 14.872 100
4906 6 18 0.9 15.128 100
4875 7 17 0.9 15.128 100
5031 7 17 0.9 15.385 100
5031 7 17 0.9 15.128 100
5188 7 18 0.9 15.128 100
5219 6 18 0.9 15.128 100
5219 6 20 0.9 14.872 100
5438 6 17 0.9 15.128 100
5344 12 17 0.9 15.128 100
5500 11 19 0.9 15.128 100
5562 11 18 0.9 15.128 100
5688 11 19 0.9 14.872 100
5656 11 20 0.9 14.872 100
5781 23 16 0.9 15.385 100
5688 23 15 0.9 15.641 100
5812 23 15 0.9 15.641 100
5906 23 15 0.9 15.897 100
5906 23 16 0.9 15.897 100
5938 22 16 0.9 15.641 100
5969 25 15 0.9 15.897 100
5875 25 15 0.9 15.897 100
5969 25 15 0.9 15.897 100
6031 25 15 0.9 15.897 100
6062 25 15 0.9 16.154 100
6094 24 14 0.9 15.897 100
6000 24 15 0.9 15.897 100
6188 24 15 0.88 15.897 100
6156 24 15 0.9 15.897 100
6188 24 14 0.9 15.897 100
6250 23 15 0.9 15.897 100
6188 23 14 0.9 15.641 100
6281 23 14 0.88 15.641 100
6250 23 14 0.9 15.897 100
6344 23 14 0.9 15.897 100
6438 23 14 0.88 15.641 100
6281 23 14 0.9 15.897 100
6344 22 14 0.9 15.897 100
6312 22 14 0.88 15.897 100
6531 22 14 0.88 15.641 100
6375 22 13 0.88 15.641 100
6531 22 14 0.88 15.641 100
6469 21 14 0.88 15.641 100
6406 21 14 0.9 15.641 100
6656 21 14 0.88 15.641 100
6656 21 12 0.88 15.641 100
6469 21 14 0.9 15.641 100
6469 21 14 0.9 15.641 100
6594 20 14 0.88 15.641 100
6531 20 14 0.88 15.641 100
6781 20 15 0.88 15.641 100
6750 20 13 0.9 15.641 100
6594 20 13 0.88 15.385 100
6688 20 14 0.88 15.641 100
6562 19 14 0.88 15.385 100
6844 19 13 0.88 15.385 100
6781 19 14 0.88 15.385 100
6750 19 14 0.88 15.385 100
6688 19 14 0.88 15.385 100
6594 19 13 0.88 15.385 100
6594 18 14 0.88 15.385 100

 

[theTuner]

STOP driving like that, your ruining you car,

ive seriously never seen that many knock counts ever; your too lean see the .88 o2's

what are you logging with, your RPM's are all scattered around i cant get a idea of a 3rd gear pull really, but it looks your either way your knocking hardcore, first off, how much psi was this set at??? 20 psi right? like in your profile? lower your boost, add fuel, lower your timing.
what octane is this? if its 91 octane, frigin down your boost to 18, or lower your base timing beacuse thtas not a good thing to be driving like that

seems your intercooler got heatsoaked by the end of this run... .. or runs, i cant tell by your logs, too scattered. post a full 3rd gear pull from 2-7k rpm in the right order.

Stock smic gets heatsoaked pretty easily, especially at 20psi.

 

[1fast97gsx]

mine heatsoaks at 17 psi...

 

[90AWDTalon]

Originally posted by theTuner
STOP driving like that, your ruining you car,

ive seriously never seen that many knock counts ever; your too lean see the .88 o2's

what are you logging with, your RPM's are all scattered around i cant get a idea of a 3rd gear pull really, but it looks your either way your knocking hardcore, first off, how much psi was this set at??? 20 psi right? like in your profile? lower your boost, add fuel, lower your timing.
what octane is this? if its 91 octane, frigin down your boost to 18, or lower your base timing beacuse thtas not a good thing to be driving like that

seems your intercooler got heatsoaked by the end of this run... .. or runs, i cant tell by your logs, too scattered. post a full 3rd gear pull from 2-7k rpm in the right order.

Stock smic gets heatsoaked pretty easily, especially at 20psi.

That was 1st-3rd gears.

Yes its 20psi, I cant lower it, thats what its creeping to. A couple of days ago it was in the mid teen's and I hit 22psi. No knock and up to 25* timing.

This run was the only one made at those setting's. I was trying alittle more timing and more fuel. Right now my timing is as low as I can go, I'm not getting any knock anymore but to get the car to idle I have to run super rich, and throttle response is lower than it should be.

As far as o2's, 1g's like much lower o2's than 2g's. Most people run good at .88-.9, some even lower.

Basically I need to retard timing only while under boost. I originaly wanted to find a way of doing this with out getting a stand alone or emanage. I've decided to go ahead and get the emanage, I did some research on it and it seems pretty sweet and will do what I need it to once I get the support tool and ignition harness. My plan was to finish my suspension mods and then save up for an intercooler. Now I think if I don't do the suspension, I might be able to order the emange next payday.

 

[RallyGSX]

check out tanner261's post:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84391

I'm going w/ dsmchips stage III , and MAFT changes on my car, let me know how it works for you...

 

[90AWDTalon]

Originally posted by RallyGSX
check out tanner261's post:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84391

I'm going w/ dsmchips stage III , and MAFT changes on my car, let me know how it works for you...

I got the emanage about a month ago and I am very happy with it. Check out the yahoo group for more info http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/emanage/ , or this review I wrote up on it http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88895 .