Running out of fuel with 14B and 510s?

[ninjanick]

I've got the standard fuel mods ie. VR-4 pump, rewired, 510cc injectors, -06AN line from hard line to rail, and NT FPR. I stil have the stock 14b going through the stock IC and a Brode UICP boosting 15lbs. With these mods I'd figure I'd have enough room on my injectors, however I tuned for 0 knock and my duty cycle is close to 95% at the top of third. Fuel injector needs some cleaning? 510s really don't flow much more than the 450s?

 

[kpt4321]

At 15 psi on a 14b, you should be fine with injectors that big. Especially with the NT FPR, you have a decent bit more avalible fuel flow than you would with 450's and a stock FPR.

However, you say that you are tuning for zero knock... if your motor has some other problem that gives it a propensity to know, then perhaps that is making you richen it up more than necessary? What are your corrections on the SAFC (are you using a SAFC?)? What kind of timing do you get at WOT?

On the other hand, I have seen cars with 550's and 14bs pulling 90% duty cycles on pump gas, so it's not impossible.

Do you have any idea (track times) how fast the car is on pump?

....Kyle T.
93 TSi AWD "TURBO4"
14b - 12.8 @ 108

 

[ninjanick]

SAFC corrections are close to 0% past 4.5K and -7% at 3K and -11% at 2K. I have the stock MAF hacked with screw all the way out. I get about 20-24 degrees timing past 5K.

It's just odd that I'm maxing out these injectors with the setup that I have. I don't know how fast in the 1/4 I am, but I Racetech'd (accelerometer) it and got somewhere between 210FWHP and 220FWHP.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Originally posted by kpt4321
At 15 psi on a 14b, you should be fine with injectors that big. Especially with the NT FPR

Are you talking about the non turbo FPR? If you are I have one of those sitting in my garage I should put it on my TSi. Does the non turbo engine run a higher fuel pressure than the turbo? Does it help that much? What PSI should I run with these mods:

3" Turboback Exhaust
Dejon Tool MBC
K&N
Stage 3 TMO chip "No fuel cut"

Thanks.

~Kletke~

 

[nowayout]

Just lean it out a little you would notice it running a lot better.

Just do it slowly and watch your EGT if you have one. At full throttle I try to keep my at 800 to 850 c.

You can tell with a logger if you have to much fuel.
with a 1G I run O2 about .86 at 7 to 10 count of knock with timing over 20 degrees.


here how my log look when my car running at it best. 0 knock was really slow.

Time RPM Knock Timing O2 Inj P/W TPS Coolant
00:01.2 4156 0 28 0.84 8.462 80 192
00:01.3 4250 0 27 0.84 10 86 192
00:01.5 4312 7 24 0.84 12.051 88 192
00:01.7 4438 13 18 0.86 14.103 91 192
00:01.9 4500 12 17 0.88 14.615 92 192
00:02.0 4594 12 17 0.88 14.872 92 192
00:02.2 4625 12 17 0.88 14.872 92 192
00:02.3 4688 11 18 0.88 14.615 92 192
00:02.5 4750 11 18 0.88 14.872 92 192
00:02.6 4844 11 18 0.88 14.872 92 192
00:02.7 4938 11 18 0.88 14.872 92 192
00:02.8 4969 11 18 0.88 14.872 92 192
00:03.0 4969 10 18 0.88 14.872 92 192
00:03.1 5188 10 18 0.88 14.872 92 192
00:03.3 5156 10 18 0.88 14.872 92 192
00:03.4 5188 11 19 0.88 15.128 92 192
00:03.5 5281 10 19 0.88 15.128 92 192
00:03.7 5219 10 18 0.88 15.385 92 192
00:03.8 5469 10 19 0.88 15.641 93 192
00:03.9 5531 10 19 0.88 15.641 93 192
00:04.0 5438 10 20 0.88 15.641 93 192
00:04.2 5656 9 22 0.88 15.641 93 192
00:04.3 5594 9 21 0.88 15.897 93 192
00:04.4 5656 9 21 0.88 15.897 93 192
00:04.5 5719 10 21 0.88 15.641 93 192
00:04.6 5812 10 21 0.88 15.897 93 192
00:04.7 5688 9 23 0.88 15.897 93 192
00:04.9 5781 9 23 0.88 15.641 93 192
00:05.0 5969 9 23 0.88 15.641 93 192
00:05.1 5938 9 24 0.88 15.385 93 192
00:05.2 6000 9 24 0.88 15.641 93 192
00:05.3 5969 8 25 0.86 15.385 93 192
00:05.4 5969 8 25 0.88 15.385 93 192
00:05.5 6125 8 23 0.86 15.385 93 192
00:05.6 6094 8 24 0.86 15.128 93 192
00:05.7 6094 9 24 0.86 15.128 93 192
00:05.8 6156 9 23 0.86 14.872 94 192
00:05.9 6281 8 23 0.86 14.872 94 192
00:06.1 6406 8 23 0.86 14.615 94 192
00:06.2 6375 8 24 0.86 14.615 94 192
00:06.3 6438 8 23 0.86 14.103 94 192
00:06.4 6375 8 23 0.86 14.359 94 192
00:06.5 6594 7 24 0.86 14.103 94 192
00:06.6 6594 7 21 0.86 13.846 94 192
00:06.7 6594 7 23 0.86 13.846 95 192
00:06.8 6719 7 23 0.86 13.846 95 192
00:07.0 6625 7 21 0.86 13.59 95 192
00:07.1 6781 6 22 0.86 13.59 96 192
00:07.2 6938 6 24 0.86 13.59 96 192
00:07.3 6844 6 22 0.86 13.59 96 192
00:07.4 6750 6 21 0.86 13.333 96 192
00:07.5 7125 6 21 0.86 13.333 96 192
00:07.7 6844 5 22 0.86 13.333 96 192
00:07.8 7000 5 21 0.86 13.077 96 192
00:07.9 6969 5 21 0.86 13.077 96 192
00:08.0 7094 5 21 0.86 13.077 96 192
00:08.2 7062 5 21 0.86 12.821 96 192

 

[ninjanick]

nowayout - that's amazing that you still get increased timing with those knock counts. My ECU pulls timing if I go much above 4 counts of knock.

->PrOjEcTGS<- - Yes the NT FPR has a base FP a little higher than the stock Turbo FPR. I believe the NT base is somewhere around 43psi and the TFPR is around 38psi.

 

[kpt4321]

A NT FPR has a 46 psi base, and the stock 1g turbo MT FPR has a 36 psi base.

....Kyle T.

 

[nowayout]

nowayout - that's amazing that you still get increased timing with those knock counts. My ECU pulls timing if I go much above 4 counts of knock


the secret is low injector pulse, 50 psi base FP w/out VAC, and 780 cc injector, Walboro 255 .


With proper tuning it works perfect.

 

[EuroGSTSpyder]

->PrOjEcTGS<- - Yes the NT FPR has a base FP a little higher than the stock Turbo FPR. I believe the NT base is somewhere around 43psi and the TFPR is around 38psi. [/B][/QUOTE]

So what ya are saying is that a NT FPR is better on a turbocar than the stock one..even the 2gs? If so ..should I change on my car since I have 660's and 3KGT pump and S-AFC II to tune in with?I can easily find a NT FPR from either a 1G NT or a 2G NT 2,0L 4G63...is it worth it?

 

[DrZiplok]

The NT FPR is not a rising-rate unit, and as such you'll run out of fuel under boost.

You're seeing this as a need for more fuel up top; at 15psi on the stock regulator your fuel pressure will be around 50psi, but the NT reg will still have you in the mid-40s.

If you want more pressure, consider the B&M hack (see RRE) for the stock regulator, but at any rate you must use a rising-rate regulator, as the ECU maps aren't designed to compensate for a flat-rate regulator.

 

[EuroGSTSpyder]

cool..thanx for that reply

 

[Bohrn]

this is great stuff, thanx everyone.

I'd like to add a small amout to it.

Freind up here has 510s, and he runs it with a Frank 3, and big boost,with 0 knock counts. He has a big front mount and some other stuff too, but still, 510s and a Frank 3. So I'd say you have some room left.

He's also run a 12.001 with a small miss all the way down, and no traction. I've seen it, not just some heresay either.