Won't Turn Over

[abaddon_baliel]

So I just got this 97 Spyder GST a few months ago... Been driving fine, replaced the alternator with a h/o 135a alt from alterstart... then last night when I was driving I went kiiinda hard (didn't launch or anything, just drove a little rougher than usual, was showin up a friend of mine with a Malibu that he claims runs high 12s.). I go to get in today, try to turn it on, it turns on, shakes real bad, and turns off. I try again, it acts like it wants to turn over, engine still shakes pretty bad, and car stays on for maybe 3 seconds before shutting off again.

My car is stock, save for the alternator and I have hard piping to the side mount. 142k miles, 5 spd. manual. Anyone know what this could be? It DOES need new motor mounts, but that wouldn't cause it to not be able to stay on. I was told maybe a fuel pump? idk, need solutions quick as this is my DD so any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[BLINKY619]

check your timing...!!!!! also check that a vacuum line didnt get disconnected

 

[abaddon_baliel]

Ok well I'm terrible with cars, so how would I check my timing? I have a good idea where the vac lines are (running from the bov right?) and all of those are connected.

 

[BLINKY619]

they are not all comming from the bov but from the intake manifold and some sensors...!!!!

 

[abaddon_baliel]

well i checked the ones coming form the intake, the bov, and thats all the ones i could readily see. there are no wires just hangin around so i would assume they are all where they should be. i checked near the turbo and boost control, by the cam gears, by the smic, nothing loose. the maf just sits there, but its been like that since i got the car. no bracket to hold it in place. doesnt seem to have been a problem before. so how do i check timing?

 

[BLINKY619]

ok in this picture there are red arrows and red dots on the pulleys.... they should line up if its on time... also this is easier if you pull both timing covers off and also the crank pulley follewed by the alternator belt.... now check your pulleys for the marks witch the oil pump has to have a little triangle arrow like... and the crank should have a v shaped nick that is the crank timing mark... in order for them to match you have to give your motor clockwise turns in order for the timing marks to line up... now after you turn it and get it as close as possible... check and see witch one is off..... if the all line up then your good... after that give your motor 6 complete turns and see if they line up again....... if they do then your good.....

 

[abaddon_baliel]

Oh....kay... I am most likely going to destroy my engine, but I will attempt this. Thanks for the info, if it's not any of this, what else could it be? I just got a job again ie I'll be able to fix things now. Hopefully it's not too expensive.... I really don't want to get rid of this car.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

Well I figured out the issue. This is a new engine for me so I didn't really know where everything was supposed to be, and I did some comparisons online and I found I am in fact missing a vacuum line. I started the car up today and it ran, engine light still on, and I put my finger over the two plugs the vacuum line was supposed to be on and the idle improved considerably. Here's a pic of the line I am missing, now I just need to get to the parts store... and all i need to know is what that vacuum line is called, exactly. im sure the guys at advanced won't know.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

Well I'm having the same problem again. It ran fine for a while, then wouldn't start due to electrical issues, so it has a brand new starter, new battery w/ terminals, all wires are good, brand new 135a h/o alternator, new belts, fuel pump & filter are good. So everything that would prevent it from starting has been replaced.

I'll check the timing and see if that's it, if not I'm thinking maybe the crank sensor went bad, because the shaking and everything is also a symptom of that needling replaced. IDK what all would be causing it to do this. It's starting to get pretty annoying though.

 

[BLINKY619]

how does it sound.. does it sound different when cranking... or does it not crank at all..?

 

[mindset]

Don't forget the 39 tooth count along the timing belt. Learned this from BlacknSpoolin Wiseman (source). This is how I check timing all the time.

To make sure the cams are aligned correctly, count 39 teeth along the timing belt. First off, make sure the dowel pins on the cam gears are at 12 o'clock. Numerous times I've seen this done the wrong way because of this simple mistake. When looking at the cams from the driver side, start from the TOP of the exhaust cam notch all the way to the left, and end ON the tooth of the intake notch of the cam all the way to the right. If it doesn't add up to 39 teeth along the belt, looks like it slipped along the cam gear.

If it does add to 39, refer to crank markings. Just because they add to 39, doesn't justify correct timing. You can use the harmonic balancer, but I don't recommend it due to the rubber separating and giving an inaccurate reading. I'd suggest removing the timing cover. That's where you'll see if your engine has the correct timing. All of the markings on the gears will line up completely one time every 6 revolutions of the crank.

It is more common for the belt to slip along the crank, but must it slip along the cams this is a good way to check.

Edit... just adding more b/s.
Edit#2: The notches do not line up 180* with the head. According to BlacknSpoolin, it's 176* about.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...l-installing-timing-timing-belt-6bolt-2g.html

 

[abaddon_baliel]

I'm installing the new crank sensor (cps) in a few days, and I'm 99% sure this will solve my problem. From everything I've read, the crank sensor is the culprit here. And yes, I had a CEL before my car just quit.

 

[abaddon_baliel]

Just put the new Crank sensor in.... and it works! She's back up and running. Was a hell of an install though, real pain in the ass. But it was the issue.