General Standalone knock sensing?

[b00stedtalon2]

I am curious to know if there is any kind of unit out there on the market for sensing knock. Anything out there? I don't run a stock ecu and am currently unable to sense knock with my current ems.

 

[2point3Tsi]

TurboXS KnockLite Knock Detection System

 

[absolute_DSM]

Talk to Glenn from Omaha, NE. I forget his screen name - I havent been on here much lately. He runs a knock sensor per cylinder.

 

[b00stedtalon2]

TurboXS KnockLite Knock Detection System

Cool thanks. do you personally use this product?

 

[turboglenn]

Talk to Glenn from Omaha, NE. I forget his screen name - I havent been on here much lately. He runs a knock sensor per cylinder.

Yes in deed! I run a J&S Safeguard Knock Sensing unit that is capable of pulling timing on a cylinder by cylinder basis. Here's a link to his homepage. One of the best "stand alone" pieces of equipment I've EVER invested in, you can literally let it make your timing curve, then adjust your settings to match what it put out and viola! A totaly optimized timing curve that can be run on what would be the "ragged edge", but the J&S makes it all gravy!

J&S Electronics SafeGuard Indivdual Cylinder Knock Control

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Yes in deed! I run a J&S Safeguard Knock Sensing unit that is capable of pulling timing on a cylinder by cylinder basis. Here's a link to his homepage. One of the best "stand alone" pieces of equipment I've EVER invested in, you can literally let it make your timing curve, then adjust your settings to match what it put out and viola! A totaly optimized timing curve that can be run on what would be the "ragged edge", but the J&S makes it all gravy!

J&S Electronics SafeGuard Indivdual Cylinder Knock Control

That thing looks nuts... a lot of the guys that use Megasquirt use Knocksense:

Engine knock detection and indication for all vehicles

 

[turboglenn]

That thing looks nuts... a lot of the guys that use Megasquirt use Knocksense:

Engine knock detection and indication for all vehicles

Ajax on here has the knock sense in his 420a turbo 2g. He came down here to have me put a fine tune on his E85 map and the knock sense eventually had to be disconeccted and ignored because it was going off any time you were on the gas pretty much, i don't think it's "filters" are any good at all if there are any. To me the knocksense was kinda like the old AFR guage that worked off your narrw band stock O2 sensor, it did something, but really did nothing.

John at J&S still has some boards left over that are much cheaper for our cars and work with our CDI ignition. He will build it for you if you call him and tell him Glenn in Omaha said you had about 4 of the old 2 channel units left that worked on the mitsubishi that he could build, and that you would like to buy one if he'd put it together. It will be some of the best money you've ever spent, and that's coming from a guy that has went the last 6-7 years with no knock sensing what so ever because i hate the thought of "tuning to please the knock sensor" It can do so much for you I can't even describe it all. He will even custom tailor the algorithym for knock sensing/filtering to your specific needs! He is the man and will do morel to make his customers happy than any other electronics manufacturer I've come across. Last time we talked he was really hoping to get some interest shown from the import/street/drag scene. His units are used in everything from Nascar to Formula SAE and other formula classes, but most of his business comes from the marine racing world. Everyone keeps them quite in classes where you run the ragged edge and things are pretty much equall and your fighting to remove grams of weight for a gain. This is because a lot of people use it by cranking their timing all the way up and letting the J&S run their whole timing curve. his units are also the only way to really keep a supercharge mustang from popping head gaskets constantly as well

People really need to, take a shot and buy one, I can say i don't think anyone would be dissapointed with the unit. Give him some business, because if he is to go out of business we will ALL lose what IMO is the worlds BEST knock sensing and timing control device PERIOD!! I've had the MSD unit and it's an utter joke compared to John's unit and the algorithym that it's processes are based off of. Plus you can litterally use the unit i have on just about any car tht has 2 or less ignition channels. As seen in this link on the unit labeled for our cars. J&S Electronics • SafeGuard

Honestly It has done wonders for me as far as ignition tuning and i've been tuning for money for the last 6-7 years or so and playing with them on my own cars for about 11 or so now.

Read some of the info on Testimonials Page you will be impressed.

 

[2point3Tsi]

I don't use the turbo xs knock lite I'm looking into what people use and what works well. I just stumbled on this but talk about pricey.<br.What does the J&@ unit run?
Gizzmo Kmon - Pro-Tuner Knock Monitor / Sensor System

 

[wishihadatalon]

As Glenn mentioned, the J&S unit is probably the best one that you can use. I personally use the stock knock sensor fed through the mic input on my laptop and then back out to my head phones. It is pretty tricky to hear knock this way but I have used it with great success.

 

[turboglenn]

I don't use the turbo xs knock lite I'm looking into what people use and what works well. I just stumbled on this but talk about pricey.<br.What does the J&@ unit run?
Gizzmo Kmon - Pro-Tuner Knock Monitor / Sensor System

For the price of that one you could buy 2 of the 2 channel J&S units. I'm not familiar with the Gizzmo, but i do know that the J&S is proven, can be custom tailored to your can and what knock sensor you want to use and is VERY effective. For 495 dollars (plus 100 for the monitor if you want it) It may sound high priced, but i think it's cheap protection for an expensive motor.

Not to mention you don't have to "use it to tune" or have head phones on to know it's knocking. THe monitor on the dash lets you know how many cylinders are getting timing pulled and how much timing and it's permanently mounted just like my ECU so it's working to protect my engine all the time. Wether it's a fuel starvation, wastegate line coming off, or just running hard for an extended period, there's almost a 90% chance that the J&S is going to pull enough timing to save the motor (it can pull up to 20* ) When you lose 10-20* of timing it's enough of a feeling to make you let out and at least ask yourself "what's going on?" So that you know to start checking out possible sources. The J&S is how i found that my AC compressor was the cause of all my phantom knock.

I have my unit where i can access it very easily to adjust sensitivity or to bypass it for dianosis of ignition parts and every time i see that purple treasure mounted up under the dash, i thank myself for going ahead and spending the cash on the unit. My MSD knock system was used mainly for dyno tuning and wasn't very reliable for import 4 bangers IMO, i think it is somehting more suited to a "v" configuration, but hell that may just be my opinion (which it is)

 

[soldave]

John at J&S still has some boards left over that are much cheaper for our cars and work with our CDI ignition. He will build it for you if you call him and tell him Glenn in Omaha said you had about 4 of the old 2 channel units left that worked on the mitsubishi that he could build, and that you would like to buy one if he'd put it together. It will be some of the best money you've ever spent, and that's coming from a guy that has went the last 6-7 years with no knock sensing what so ever because i hate the thought of "tuning to please the knock sensor" It can do so much for you I can't even describe it all. He will even custom tailor the algorithym for knock sensing/filtering to your specific needs! He is the man and will do morel to make his customers happy than any other electronics manufacturer I've come across. Last time we talked he was really hoping to get some interest shown from the import/street/drag scene. His units are used in everything from Nascar to Formula SAE and other formula classes, but most of his business comes from the marine racing world. Everyone keeps them quite in classes where you run the ragged edge and things are pretty much equall and your fighting to remove grams of weight for a gain. This is because a lot of people use it by cranking their timing all the way up and letting the J&S run their whole timing curve. his units are also the only way to really keep a supercharge mustang from popping head gaskets constantly as well

People really need to, take a shot and buy one, I can say i don't think anyone would be dissapointed with the unit. Give him some business, because if he is to go out of business we will ALL lose what IMO is the worlds BEST knock sensing and timing control device PERIOD!! I've had the MSD unit and it's an utter joke compared to John's unit and the algorithym that it's processes are based off of. Plus you can litterally use the unit i have on just about any car tht has 2 or less ignition channels. As seen in this link on the unit labeled for our cars. J&S Electronics • SafeGuard

Honestly It has done wonders for me as far as ignition tuning and i've been tuning for money for the last 6-7 years or so and playing with them on my own cars for about 11 or so now.

Read some of the info on Testimonials Page you will be impressed.

Have heard you mention these before I think, and I've kept looking at them. When you say John has some boards that are cheaper for our cars, what kind of price are you looking at? And this may be a dumb question, but are people putting this in and then turning up the timing, so that when they get knock the Safeguard will retard each cylinder as appropriate, so you can run pretty much on the limit but keeping knock out of it?

 

[turboglenn]

Have heard you mention these before I think, and I've kept looking at them. When you say John has some boards that are cheaper for our cars, what kind of price are you looking at? And this may be a dumb question, but are people putting this in and then turning up the timing, so that when they get knock the Safeguard will retard each cylinder as appropriate, so you can run pretty much on the limit but keeping knock out of it?

I can't really quote on a price, i shouldn't have used the words "much cheaper" because i don't know what he is retailing them for but i would guess in the 350 - 400 range for the unit alone to get V1 like i have (i think i paid around 425 for mine w/ remote view thingy... but i have a unit with out boost retard or TPS clamping because it's the old style), there's a v.2 now but i haven't tried it, he said i can send my box back and get the algorythim changed to the newer one, but i've been happy with it as is and really don't want to go witout it for a week in the middle of "car season". Maybe i'll have it reflashed when winter comes.

According to John @ J&S and several people on some forums, this is what many people that race head to head in restrictor plate classes trying for every viable ounce of power. Also the mustang users are saying that they don't have to put any boost retarding function style ignition in their cars (or a revamped curve) and they are letting the J&S control complete timing on supercharged and nitrouse cars using piggy back fueling as their only management.

It has a sensitivity control (knob) on board that lets you tailor it to the amount of noise to count out, it also is inactive below a certain RPM and or TPS voltage (1.75 on our cars and i THINK 1750 RPM) these can be custom tailored to your needs, but the stock 4cyl setup is pretty effective right out of the box.

 

[soldave]

Thanks Glenn. Might get in touch with this guy and ask a couple of questions about it. Am not pushing my car to the absolute limit, but would be nice to add some safeguards as I up the power.

 

[turboglenn]

No problem, you may have to try John a few times to get him, but once you're on the phone with him he will take the time to answer any of your questions and then will continue to overload your brain with techno-babble about how the unit works..I sometimes find it hard to get him off the phone (Funny thing is i can't get Jon at TRE off the phone half the time either )

 

[soldave]

Well, would be calling from Japan so will probably try the old email first!

Think my main question is about how to set up the timing with my chip emulator software and this. By the sounds of it, I could ramp up the timing on the software and then when any knock is detected it will be removed on an individual cylinder basis, which is great. But doing that would not stop the initial knock when it occurs. While it might only be dangerous if it's knocking over time, the first knock detected can't be healthy for the car, can it?

 

[Black_Bullet]

Well, would be calling from Japan so will probably try the old email first!

Think my main question is about how to set up the timing with my chip emulator software and this. By the sounds of it, I could ramp up the timing on the software and then when any knock is detected it will be removed on an individual cylinder basis, which is great. But doing that would not stop the initial knock when it occurs. While it might only be dangerous if it's knocking over time, the first knock detected can't be healthy for the car, can it?

Depends how bad that intial blip of knock was before the timing was corrected...
If its real knock, under 10 counts; No..
Under 20 counts; not really... Over 30 counts- most likely ... Just my opinion though...

Damn I keep running into you on both forums .

Glenn, that J&S knock sensing unit looks great, wish I had the money to ditch out to something like that.
I am also curious though as how someone with stock ecu that tunes off of eprom chips like Soldave and I
would run that...

I use Evilscribe software myself and burn my own chips on my computer at home with the willem eprom burner.
I wonder what all would change, and how its installed?

 

[turboglenn]

Depends how bad that intial blip of knock was before the timing was corrected...
If its real knock, under 10 counts; No..
Under 20 counts; not really... Over 30 counts- most likely ... Just my opinion though...

Damn I keep running into you on both forums .

Glenn, that J&S knock sensing unit looks great, wish I had the money to ditch out to something like that.
I am also curious though as how someone with stock ecu that tunes off of eprom chips like Soldave and I
would run that...

I use Evilscribe software myself and burn my own chips on my computer at home with the willem eprom burner.
I wonder what all would change, and how its installed?

Well, since teh ECU would expect to see a knock sensor hooked into it's wiring, you would just isolate it from the motor but leave it hooked up. Then instal the J&S and splice it between the ignition triggers from the ECU ( the pull to ground wires) and you could remap your timing in the chip i would think