Pump Gas tuning... TPG

[mini zilo]

Why do places like TPG tuning get so much out of pump gas? After seeing what they do, I feel like I am giving pump gas the respect it deserves. What tricks are there that make them be able to do low 10's on pump gas and stuff like that?

 

[Black_Bullet]

Numerous variables to get the most out of any fuel.
And i believe they use E85 if im not mistaken.

 

[Ravenous]

I understand that there are many variables, but how are they tuning?

Have they modified the ignition system some way?

What plugs are they running?

What air metering system are they using?

Is this with meth injection?

I mean really once you have a turbo of such a small size the air is going to get hotter the harder you push it which is going to make it harder to maintain a tune without knock. Yet they are doing it. Maybe they are trying to blow the motor and have gotten lucky... was it a 0 knock tune or were they maybe fooling the ecu into believing there was no knock so they could keep timing up. I need answers too

 

[DSM90AWD]

Numerous variables to get the most out of any fuel.
And i believe they use E85 if im not mistaken.

You're mistaken, all the TPG runs I've seen (on pump) were been done on 93octane

 

[Black_Bullet]

I understand that there are many variables, but how are they tuning?

Have they modified the ignition system some way?

What plugs are they running?

What air metering system are they using?

Is this with meth injection?

I mean really once you have a turbo of such a small size the air is going to get hotter the harder you push it which is going to make it harder to maintain a tune without knock. Yet they are doing it. Maybe they are trying to blow the motor and have gotten lucky... was it a 0 knock tune or were they maybe fooling the ecu into believing there was no knock so they could keep timing up. I need answers too

With the type of high octane fuels you can use, and the uber efficient intercoolers on the market, knock really isnt a main factor... With proper tools you can dial in so much timing and go so lean on AFR that you actually stop gaining power before you even knock even with the boost maxed out...

What it should come down to with them is a very tedious selection of parts, and using tricks of the trade that they obviously arent willing to tell us or we'd know it by now.

My bet is pre compressor injection to pull what would seem to be improbable air flow numbers out of the little 16g.
Pre-turbo water meth

 

[Black_Bullet]

You're mistaken, all the TPG runs I've seen (on pump) were been done on 93octane

What about on Curt browns car with what this guy is most likely referencing to were he supposably did 460 or something like that on the 16g.

And when you say pump gas I doubt you mean straight pump gas, as in no form of injection...

 

[FonZ454]

What about on Curt browns car with what this guy is most likely referencing to were he supposably did 460 or something like that on the 16g.

And when you say pump gas I doubt you mean straight pump gas, as in no form of injection...

TPG said straight 93 nothing else. I find it hard to believe, but if true, that's just SICK power.

 

[turboglenn]

What about on Curt browns car with what this guy is most likely referencing to were he supposably did 460 or something like that on the 16g.

And when you say pump gas I doubt you mean straight pump gas, as in no form of injection...

That was done on race gas, C16 leaded fuel. Most of it comes from a well put together combo from front to back. Not meaning expensive, just properly picked and tuned perfectly. Larger turbos create less heat at the same boost levels than their smaller counterparts, so that help with keeping knock away on pump gas.

I added meth injection recently and it's absolutely incredible as to what it will let me do on pump gas, and i'm still learning what exact mix of water and meeth my car likes along with still getting to lean it back out since the meth richened it up a half point everywhere. After adding meth/water, I went from running 18-20psi on an aggressive timing map 20* at all RPM's and all boost levels) with the J&S sometimes pulling 7* timing in one cylinder (#3) and sometimes pulling 3-4 in other cylinders. I added the meth and it went away completely once i learned what i was doing with the meth kit.


Now i'm up to 25psi (and still too rich) with timing peaking 17 degrees, and i only turned it down "just in case" when i pumped the boost up to 25psi. I'm sure i can lean it out and get rid of some of the knock im' getting there(1-2* tops), and then maybe add timing more meth or both... But i think it's rich knock from fuel going unburnt at first and then lighting off after the initial charge.


Damn, i babbled again..... but anway, a little of this a little of that and they are fast , J/K but you can get some ideas of what they do from what the rest of use do...they're just doing it better! Maybe you will come up with the next best little set of secrets, all depends on how much R&D time and money you got

 

[mini zilo]

That was done on race gas, C16 leaded fuel. Most of it comes from a well put together combo from front to back. Not meaning expensive, just properly picked and tuned perfectly. Larger turbos create less heat at the same boost levels than their smaller counterparts, so that help with keeping knock away on pump gas.

I added meth injection recently and it's absolutely incredible as to what it will let me do on pump gas, and i'm still learning what exact mix of water and meeth my car likes along with still getting to lean it back out since the meth richened it up a half point everywhere. After adding meth/water, I went from running 18-20psi on an aggressive timing map 20* at all RPM's and all boost levels) with the J&S sometimes pulling 7* timing in one cylinder (#3) and sometimes pulling 3-4 in other cylinders. I added the meth and it went away completely once i learned what i was doing with the meth kit.


Now i'm up to 25psi (and still too rich) with timing peaking 17 degrees, and i only turned it down "just in case" when i pumped the boost up to 25psi. I'm sure i can lean it out and get rid of some of the knock im' getting there(1-2* tops), and then maybe add timing more meth or both... But i think it's rich knock from fuel going unburnt at first and then lighting off after the initial charge.


Damn, i babbled again..... but anway, a little of this a little of that and they are fast , J/K but you can get some ideas of what they do from what the rest of use do...they're just doing it better! Maybe you will come up with the next best little set of secrets, all depends on how much R&D time and money you got

What meth kit do you run? Devlisown?

I want to run meth, but I want to control it with DSMLink using the nitrous controls

 

[turboglenn]

What meth kit do you run? Devlisown?

I want to run meth, but I want to control it with DSMLink using the nitrous controls

Yea, Devilsown base kit with M5,7 and 10 size nozzles.. I have several nitrous outputs so i'm running the main system off of one of them on my haltech. I have a few extra nozzles, connectors and solenoids around so i'm thinking i might do a 2 stage system. I"ll have the pump come on and start feeding the system and have a smaller nozzle "unblocked" and it will start flowing at say 7psi. Then i'll have a solenoid blocking the second larger nozzle untill i get past 20psi and then i'll have that open using a different N2o control. You can use any output to fire off a relay for a second stage, like.. shift light output, staging signal,vtec control, dual manifold runner control or any other output that you can set to come on by RPM or boost. Then, that will let the pump feed both nozzles for a semi progressive system that should hopefully work a little smoother for large amounts of injection on a daily driver. That way i shouldn't bog if it comes in early like it would if i had one HUGE nozzle for high boost and it came full on at 7psi or something. But it might be easier to just buy the progressive controller if you don't have configurable outputs to work with.

Hey, PM me about this unless the OP doesn't mind, but i kinda feel like we're thread jacking a little.

 

[mini zilo]

Yea, Devilsown base kit with M5,7 and 10 size nozzles.. I have several nitrous outputs so i'm running the main system off of one of them on my haltech. I have a few extra nozzles, connectors and solenoids around so i'm thinking i might do a 2 stage system. I"ll have the pump come on and start feeding the system and have a smaller nozzle "unblocked" and it will start flowing at say 7psi. Then i'll have a solenoid blocking the second larger nozzle untill i get past 20psi and then i'll have that open using a different N2o control. You can use any output to fire off a relay for a second stage, like.. shift light output, staging signal,vtec control, dual manifold runner control or any other output that you can set to come on by RPM or boost. Then, that will let the pump feed both nozzles for a semi progressive system that should hopefully work a little smoother for large amounts of injection on a daily driver. That way i shouldn't bog if it comes in early like it would if i had one HUGE nozzle for high boost and it came full on at 7psi or something. But it might be easier to just buy the progressive controller if you don't have configurable outputs to work with.

Hey, PM me about this unless the OP doesn't mind, but i kinda feel like we're thread jacking a little.

, it's ok, I am the OP So this setup you plan to run seems pretty complicated. So is it better for meth to be activated by BOOST levels rather than RPM and TPS thresholds like with nitrous?

 

[gsxtasy]

Andrew and the guys from TPG don't use e85, or meth injection. They are apparently just good at what they do, he ran 9.98(I think) on his old 3052 setup, They ran 9.38 on a 37r and now they're shooting for 8's this year on a completely new setup, that is just amazing. I don't think they are using only pump gas now-a-days though, but i could be wrong. Good guys over there, with even better tuning skills.

-Aaron

 

[wishihadatalon]

With the type of high octane fuels you can use, and the uber efficient intercoolers on the market, knock really isnt a main factor... With proper tools you can dial in so much timing and go so lean on AFR that you actually stop gaining power before you even knock even with the boost maxed out...

What it should come down to with them is a very tedious selection of parts, and using tricks of the trade that they obviously arent willing to tell us or we'd know it by now.

My bet is pre compressor injection to pull what would seem to be improbable air flow numbers out of the little 16g.
Pre-turbo water meth

Pre-turbo water injection is just waiting for something bad to happen. There are countless cases of blades being chipped away from that.

 

[turboglenn]

, it's ok, I am the OP So this setup you plan to run seems pretty complicated. So is it better for meth to be activated by BOOST levels rather than RPM and TPS thresholds like with nitrous?

Yes, it's better off boost related than TPS and RPM. although you could use it if you wanted. It's not that complicated if i drew it out, it's just 2 extra wires and one extra meth nozzle...

 

[Black_Bullet]

Andrew and the guys from TPG don't use e85, or meth injection. They are apparently just good at what they do, he ran 9.98(I think) on his old 3052 setup, They ran 9.38 on a 37r and now they're shooting for 8's this year on a completely new setup, that is just amazing. I don't think they are using only pump gas now-a-days though, but i could be wrong. Good guys over there, with even better tuning skills.

-Aaron

I found it hard to believe it was done on race gas so for those numbers on a 16g on pump gas just sound farfeitched.
I guess i am just one of the few who doesnt believe in magic tricks.
Either way they have something great going on over there...

Pre-turbo water injection is just waiting for something bad to happen. There are countless cases of blades being chipped away from that.

I didnt list the cons of doing it, i just said its a possibility for making outragous numbers on an undersized turbo.