DIY Water Injection , FIRST PULL Untuned!!!!

[95_Talon_nt]

Made My Own Water Injection System, With Stock Fuel Pump, NAPA Boot Pressure Sensor, 30 AMP Relay, And High Pressure Lines And Fitting etc. First And Only Pull Of The Night From Insulation. UN-TUNED!!!! Correct Me If I'm Wrong But 90 FWD Eclipse o2 Sensor Values For WOT Should Be Between .88 and .90 V? Running 550CC Inj, SAFC II, Phantom Boost Press, Water Injection, Stock Open DP, Walbro 195 W/ No AFPR, Manual Boost Pressure Cont, Hacked MAS. 61.7 F Outside @ Night, 16g @ 19psi.

 

[Talon96tsiAWD]

hey man, i think you need to try adding some fuel with the safc. What are your currect correction values? and what rpm points are you using? plan on getting together with me sometime this week and i'll help you out. you should have ZERO knock on your setup, unless your intercooler is seriously clogged with shit.

 

[1990EclipseGSX]

Tuning off narrowband O2 votages is not the best idea... They can be extremely innacurate at WOT. You really need a wideband to know what's going on. My narrowband consistenly spits out values of .78-.82 @ WOT, regardless of what my wideband is reading.
It doesn't matter if I am running 9:1 or 13:1, I still see values of .78-.82 from the narrowband. However, with water injection, you *should* be seeing 0 degrees of knock, and you have some fairly substantial knock in one of the gears on your pull. It is hard to say though because you don't have values, so I don't know if that is 2 or 20 counts of knock.
The knock in addition to your low O2 voltages would make me think you are running lean, but there is no way to tell for sure. I would add a little fuel and see if that helps out your knock.
Also, were you ever running 19psi before you added the water injection, or was this the first time you turned up the boost? I guess what I am getting at is, do you have any logs to compare your pulls using the water injection to? What kind of O2 values are you used to seeing with no knock? Also, is there any way you can post the logs in a table format?

Chris

 

[95_Talon_nt]

its is the first time that i have run water injection @ 19 psi, all others times was with out it. i had 25-35 counts of knock all the way through powerband to 7000 i'll get another log today i up the fuel settings a bit. and i'll post the chart data. thanks everyone

 

[Talon96tsiAWD]

J, running anything over 5-7 counts of knock is BAD, and also i do belive after 7 counts the timing pulls i forget how many degrees by the ecu. How many pulls did you do before this log? theres factors that can come into play such as the intercooler not flowing well, possible pressure drop, could be clogged with shit, could also be heatsoaked. Theres no reason why running 550's and water injection on a 16g should have knock. Start with adding more fuel, and get yourself a bigger downpipe and weld a bung in it and my friend will allow us to use his wideband, which i will be doing in the next couple weeks.

p.s. what kind of EGT's are you running?

 

[guitarXgeek]

and also i do belive after 7 counts the timing pulls i forget how many degrees by the ecu

The ecu pulls ~.35 degrees of timing advance for every count of knock, so you can say that for every 3 counts of knock the ecu pulls 1 degree of timing.

 

[Talon96tsiAWD]

The ecu pulls ~.35 degrees of timing advance for every count of knock, so you can say that for every 3 counts of knock the ecu pulls 1 degree of timing.

thanks for the info

 

[Talon96tsiAWD]

after driving the car tonight, adding a bit more fuel in the 3k-5500 rpm range, it pulls pretty good for whats done to it, i'm impressed. BUT, theres still about 5-8 counts of knock to redline. My logical guess is the stock sidemount getting heatsoaked near instantly @ 19 psi. 16g spools FAST and holds 19psi to redline, no creep, no spike. i can have that knock almost eliminated with a full day of sitting down and tuning it. I feel with a better intercooler that knock will dissapear and timing will be advanced above 15* , thats deffinately low. I feel with that knock completely eliminated it will see about 18* where my car currently is @ 20 psi on a 14b with just a few more mods, that DEFFINATELY pulls harder.

Next on your agenda better NOT be more "go-fast" parts. That clutch is toast, despite its whole 2" of pedal travel WTF and stock motor and trans with 198k miles!!!!

6 bolt pride

 

[beat90tsi]

I don't think your IC is getting heatsoaked "instantly."
It is probably another tuning issue.

 

[95_Talon_nt]

on the way to work @ 19psi, graph and data chart.


Time RPM Knock Timing 02
0.24 3250.0 0.0 33.0 0.22
0.36 3281.0 0.0 33.0 0.51
0.48 3313.0 0.0 33.0 0.75
0.61 3281.0 0.0 33.0 0.18
0.73 3313.0 0.0 33.0 0.67
0.84 3313.0 0.0 33.0 0.59
0.96 3344.0 0.0 33.0 0.14
1.09 3375.0 0.0 32.0 0.78
1.21 3375.0 0.0 27.0 0.88
1.33 3406.0 0.0 25.0 0.88
1.44 3438.0 0.0 24.0 0.9
1.56 3500.0 0.0 21.0 0.9
1.671 3531.0 0.0 21.0 0.9
1.77 3563.0 1.0 20.0 0.9
1.88 3594.0 1.0 17.0 0.9
1.98 3625.0 0.0 17.0 0.9
2.09 3656.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
2.21 3813.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
2.32 3781.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
2.43 3813.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
2.53 3969.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
2.639 4031.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
2.76 4125.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
2.8600001 4063.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
2.98 4125.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
3.08 4219.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
3.18 4344.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
3.29 4281.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
3.41 4313.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
3.5 4469.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
3.610 4500.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
3.72 4531.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
3.81 4563.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
3.92 4688.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
3.98 4688.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
4.06 4781.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
4.15 4844.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
4.24 4813.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
4.34 4906.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
4.42 4875.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
4.52 5031.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
4.62 5031.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
4.723 5094.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
4.83 5031.0 0.0 19.0 0.88
4.96 5125.0 0.0 20.0 0.88
5.05 5188.0 0.0 19.0 0.88
5.15 5313.0 0.0 20.0 0.88
5.24 5344.0 0.0 20.0 0.88
5.32 5313.0 0.0 20.0 0.88
5.4 5313.0 0.0 20.0 0.88
5.5 5438.0 0.0 20.0 0.88
5.58 5438.0 0.0 21.0 0.88
5.68 5531.0 0.0 21.0 0.88
5.77 5469.0 0.0 21.0 0.88
5.86 5625.0 0.0 21.0 0.88
5.94 5688.0 0.0 21.0 0.88
6.05 5656.0 0.0 21.0 0.88
6.13 5688.0 0.0 21.0 0.88
6.19 5688.0 0.0 21.0 0.88
6.27 5688.0 0.0 22.0 0.88
6.35 5719.0 0.0 22.0 0.88
6.44 5844.0 0.0 22.0 0.88
6.5297 5813.0 0.0 22.0 0.88
6.62 5969.0 0.0 22.0 0.88
6.71 6000.0 0.0 22.0 0.86
6.83 5938.0 0.0 22.0 0.88
6.95 6031.0 0.0 22.0 0.88
7.06 6063.0 0.0 22.0 0.82
7.18 6000.0 0.0 41.0 0.67
7.31 5500.0 0.0 45.0 0.67
7.41 5375.0 0.0 45.0 0.67
7.52 5031.0 0.0 45.0 0.67
7.63 4844.0 0.0 44.0 0.67
7.74 4688.0 0.0 44.0 0.67
7.84 4406.0 0.0 43.0 0.69
7.9703 4281.0 0.0 37.0 0.88
8.09 4406.0 0.0 34.0 0.9
8.23 4250.0 0.0 29.0 0.9
8.34 4313.0 0.0 28.0 0.92
8.47 4375.0 0.0 23.0 0.9
8.59 4313.0 0.0 21.0 0.9
8.71 4344.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
8.79 4438.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
8.91 4469.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
9.03 4406.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
9.12 4406.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
9.23 4531.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
9.35 4469.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
9.43 4625.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
9.54 4594.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
9.64 4500.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
9.74 4531.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
9.85 4625.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
9.91 4625.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
10.01 4688.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
10.11 4688.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
10.2 4688.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
10.28 4719.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
10.38 4656.0 0.0 19.0 0.9
10.49 4719.0 2.0 17.0 0.9
10.54 4719.0 2.0 17.0 0.9
10.63 4719.0 2.0 18.0 0.9
10.74 4844.0 2.0 18.0 0.9
10.84 4813.0 2.0 17.0 0.9
10.91 4813.0 2.0 18.0 0.9
11.01 4875.0 2.0 17.0 0.9
11.1 4875.0 1.0 17.0 0.9
11.18 4938.0 1.0 17.0 0.9
11.28 4969.0 1.0 17.0 0.9
11.37 4938.0 1.0 17.0 0.88
11.5 4906.0 1.0 17.0 0.9
11.62 4938.0 1.0 17.0 0.9
11.73 4969.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
11.81 5000.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
11.87 5000.0 0.0 18.0 0.88
11.99 5063.0 0.0 18.0 0.88
12.08 5063.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
12.21 5094.0 0.0 18.0 0.9
12.31 5063.0 0.0 19.0 0.88
12.43 5125.0 0.0 19.0 0.88
12.53 5188.0 0.0 19.0 0.88
12.64 4969.0 0.0 29.0 0.65
12.77 4813.0 0.0 43.0 0.63
12.89 4500.0 0.0 42.0 0.65
13.02 4313.0 0.0 43.0 0.67
13.15 4094.0 0.0 41.0 0.67
13.24 3969.0 0.0 41.0 0.67
13.34 3813.0 0.0 41.0 0.69
13.47 3594.0 0.0 40.0 0.69
13.55 3594.0 0.0 40.0 0.69
13.65 3625.0 0.0 27.0 0.69
13.76 3781.0 0.0 28.0 0.69
13.85 3938.0 0.0 28.0 0.67
13.98 4125.0 0.0 29.0 0.67
14.08 4094.0 0.0 29.0 0.57
14.18 4094.0 0.0 29.0 0.31
14.3 4125.0 0.0 29.0 0.12
14.43 4000.0 0.0 29.0 0.08
14.55 4063.0 0.0 29.0 0.06
14.68 4000.0 0.0 28.0 0.06
14.77 4094.0 0.0 28.0 0.06
14.88 3969.0 0.0 28.0 0.06
14.98 4031.0 0.0 28.0 0.04

 

[95_Talon_nt]

graph

 

[Talon96tsiAWD]

much better.

 

[Burnett03]

much better.

i switched to straight alcohol tonight and . I was able to bump my psi from 20psi to 23psi and take out -4% on my safc. All on a 60-1. After the pull i touched the throttle body and it was ice cold. now i know why the gm guys swear on alcohol

 

[Talon96tsiAWD]

are you running a do-it-yourself kit, or a purchased kit?

glad your results are good. everyone should run alcohol injection on a boosted car, it cleans, it helps, and it prevents!

 

[1990EclipseGSX]

Those logs are looking much better.

Nice

 

[Burnett03]

are you running a do-it-yourself kit, or a purchased kit?

glad your results are good. everyone should run alcohol injection on a boosted car, it cleans, it helps, and it prevents!

diy kit

 

[gijoe985]

How many psi does the stock fuel pump put out? I figured if I wanted to play with a diy water injection setup, and I was getting a bigger fuel pump, using the stock one for something would be convenient...

 

[Burnett03]

Stock fuel pump isn't a good idea for water injection. It doesn't pump enough pressure.. Water injection needs around 80+psi to full atomize the mixture.

 

[gijoe985]

What psi does our stock fuel pump send out? I guess I would have figured it would have been about that high... No biggy, I'm just researching...

 

[Avionixx]

What psi does our stock fuel pump send out? I guess I would have figured it would have been about that high... No biggy, I'm just researching...

http://www.vfaq.com/proj-pics/pump/graph-02.gif

Really depends on the volume of alky he's injecting.

 

[talon187]

get a widebad i know its some money but its well worth it. its worth every penny id NEVER tune blind

 

[turboglenn]

What are you using to meter the alcohol? (like jets or nozzles?)

The second logs look much nicer!!!!

I loved my water/meth setup, but now i'm running on pure E85 so i don't use it as much as i use to. Now i use it where teh injectors start to run out for extra fuel..not the best, but it will have to do untill i get my new pump and filter/line in

 

[bacalhau16]

I love the creativity with the DIY kit, but would like to know the specifics of it a little more if possible.

Atleast it did remove your knock. Im sure your making more power now.