latest log... more fuel???

mwreed · 03-10-2005, 10:09 AM

I just did a run this morning. I know that I am knocking too much, but, my concern is this. I was having high end issues... missing, backfireing and such. I got is fixed by lowering the fuel pressure. Apparently, I had it set at 43psi.

I dropped it back down to 37 and it runs good know. I was getting some knock before and my O2's seemed to be a bit high, so, I thought maybe a little rich knock. I know to not trust the O2, but, it was at .94 pretty consistantly. This run, I was at about .90, which seems right for a '90. I'm running at 15psi boost and holding with 91 octane. My mods are in my profile, aside from the BPR7ES's I just added the other day. My question is what do you think? Add fuel? I'm going to try it today anyway, unless someone says no, but, I wanted to get some input. Here's my log:

100.00% 827.6 hz 0.82V 3156.25rpm 23.00º 0
100.00% 981.2 hz 0.90V 3281.25rpm 19.00º 0
100.00% 1220.2 hz 0.92V 3468.75rpm 15.00º 0
100.00% 1434.1 hz 0.92V 3718.75rpm 16.00º 0
100.00% 1547.3 hz 0.92V 4000.00rpm 14.00º 12
100.00% 1534.7 hz 0.92V 4156.25rpm 11.00º 18
100.00% 1710.8 hz 0.92V 4500.00rpm 11.00º 18
100.00% 1861.8 hz 0.92V 4562.50rpm 11.00º 17
100.00% 1912.1 hz 0.92V 5031.25rpm 13.00º 17
100.00% 1937.3 hz 0.92V 5062.50rpm 13.00º 17
100.00% 1912.1 hz 0.92V 5156.25rpm 15.00º 16
100.00% 1987.6 hz 0.90V 5468.75rpm 16.00º 16
100.00% 2063.1 hz 0.90V 5593.75rpm 16.00º 17
100.00% 2063.1 hz 0.90V 5875.00rpm 17.00º 16
100.00% 2075.6 hz 0.90V 5937.50rpm 17.00º 16
100.00% 2176.3 hz 0.90V 5968.75rpm 18.00º 16
100.00% 2151.1 hz 0.92V 6156.25rpm 17.00º 15
100.00% 2201.4 hz 0.90V 6468.75rpm 17.00º 15
100.00% 2201.4 hz 0.92V 6437.50rpm 16.00º 15
100.00% 2188.9 hz 0.90V 6562.50rpm 15.00º 14
100.00% 2188.9 hz 0.90V 6687.50rpm 15.00º 14
100.00% 2214.0 hz 0.90V 6687.50rpm 15.00º 14
100.00% 2226.6 hz 0.92V 7062.50rpm 13.00º 14
100.00% 2201.4 hz 0.92V 6906.25rpm 14.00º 13
100.00% 2113.4 hz 0.92V 7156.25rpm 13.00º 13

I'm logging MAF too, becuase I am using E-manage and the additonal injector pulse is based on MAF right now, until I change to the pressure sensor.

Thanks,
Mike

ICGerms · 03-10-2005, 11:55 AM

Yeah, you might need more fuel, since you're using 91 octane. Maybe try a higher octane fuel to see if the knock goes away.

What's sorta goofy is that your timing doesn't really seem to be getting retarded from the knock.

Also, since you've got a '90, there's not much point in running it above 5600rpms, or so, because the stock '90 cams poop out after that (didn't see cams in your mod list).

out there · 03-10-2005, 12:15 PM

look into the quality of your knock sensor, because with that kind of knock you should be getting massive timing pull...
try a little more fuel, and then use less. try to get around 20deg of timing and .88 o2. i have a 1990 as well, and using the pocketlogger fourms i found that .88 is optimal for the 1990 model. i think that might even be the case for the 90 and 91s, because a local guy at a shop has a 91 and recommended i use less fuel when i was getting logs similar to yours, except that i was getting 5 or less knock.
EDIT: you might want to try using the ngk 6's instead of the 7s, experiment

mwreed · 03-10-2005, 12:23 PM

I'm guessing the knock sensor is ok. I was getting 23 and 24 advance with less boost and no knock. I have 650's, so I can compensate for the fuel needed. Right now, I am just running no fuel adjustment aside from my custom eprom. I'll log again tonight and tomorrow with more fuel and see what happens.

Never thought about the cams. Not yet, at least. For all I know, I could have newer cams in one of the heads I have... I'll have to check them. I do know the pulleys are different colors, but, that means nothing for the cams themselves.

Thanks,
Mike

out there · 03-10-2005, 01:46 PM

i don't know about cams, i thought the stock ones weren't the restricting factor in 1g's? i may be wrong, never really looked into it very closely

mwreed · 03-10-2005, 02:10 PM

From what I was to gather from ICGerms and some quick searches... the '90 has the least aggresive cams. The '91 and '92 are better, but, the '93 and '94 are the best of the stock cams. I'm just going to work with what I have. I felt like I was still pulling pretty good even to 7000, but, I know there is always room from improvement. I'm just tunning with what I have now. I need to do some suspension upgrades before too long anyway.

thanks

ICGerms · 03-10-2005, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by out there

look into the quality of your knock sensor, because with that kind of knock you should be getting massive timing pull...

Knock is knock, and the logger sees what the ECU sees, so the sensor shouldn't be a factor, here. BUT that's what I said in my first post...it's goofy that the timing isn't being pulled more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by out there

...try to get around 20deg of timing and .88 o2...

20* would be AWESOME for a WOT pull, in 3rd. BUT, 15* is far more likely and achievable...plus, at that point you'll be running a l'il leaner and be making more HP (theoretically).

As far as O2's...I wouldn't even pay attention to them; you've got the ability to tune via knock, so use it. Ask the 2G guys if it's easier to tune via O2's or if they would rather have a knock sensor. No telling how a questionable O2 sensor will complicate your tuning.

mwreed · 03-14-2005, 09:26 AM

I am making 2nd gear runs, because of space and legal issue.

Also, the O2 sensor is brand new. Not that I am relying on it. It just seemed odd. I think I have it figured out though. I added some fuel at about 4k and gradually take some out as it increases airflow and rpm. Seems to be working. If I add too much fuel, the top end doesn't like it. It acts like a misfire. I just have to find the right setting and I'll be good. This one seems to be ok, but, I still get a tiny issue at about 6500 rpm. Just need to tweek it a bit more. Here is my log from this morning.

100.00% 1698.2 hz 0.94V 4468.75rpm 16.00º 3
100.00% 1748.6 hz 0.94V 4718.75rpm 17.00º 3
100.00% 1824.0 hz 0.94V 4656.25rpm 18.00º 3
100.00% 1811.5 hz 0.94V 5000.00rpm 18.00º 2
100.00% 1899.5 hz 0.92V 5125.00rpm 18.00º 2
100.00% 1924.7 hz 0.92V 5437.50rpm 20.00º 3
100.00% 2012.7 hz 0.92V 5468.75rpm 20.00º 2
100.00% 1975.0 hz 0.92V 5593.75rpm 22.00º 2
100.00% 2012.7 hz 0.92V 5687.50rpm 21.00º 2
100.00% 2050.5 hz 0.92V 5937.50rpm 22.00º 1
100.00% 2050.5 hz 0.92V 6031.25rpm 23.00º 1
100.00% 2113.4 hz 0.92V 6093.75rpm 23.00º 1
100.00% 2126.0 hz 0.92V 6187.50rpm 22.00º 0
100.00% 2201.4 hz 0.92V 6406.25rpm 23.00º 0
100.00% 2214.0 hz 0.92V 6531.25rpm 20.00º 0
100.00% 2176.3 hz 0.92V 6500.00rpm 20.00º 0
100.00% 2251.8 hz 0.92V 6562.50rpm 20.00º 1
100.00% 2163.7 hz 0.90V 6781.25rpm 18.00º 1
100.00% 2100.8 hz 0.90V 6906.25rpm 18.00º 1

ICGerms · 03-14-2005, 11:15 AM

Looks good, although I still contend that there's no reason to rev that high. If you get to a dyno, you'll see that your HP drops off after ~5600rpms, due to the '90 cams. That's not to say that you can't run up there...looks like it's tuned OK, but there's really no point as you're making LESS horsepower after the '90 cams poop out. Higher rpms do not always equate to more horsepower.

mwreed · 03-14-2005, 11:21 AM

You are assuming that I definately have 90 cams. I don't know if I do or not. The heads that I have were rebuilt previously before I owned them, so, it is possible that the cams are from a different year. Just like the tranny I have is from a '92. It came with the car. I'll measure the lift one of these days when I have the opportunity, but, in the meantime, while I can still feel it pulling about 5600, I will keep reving... unless I run into another issue. lol. I only rev that high for loggin purposes anyway..

Thanks,
Mike