General HKS VPC/GCC

[LAZPNO]

I was running around the web tonite to try and figure out what Fuel Management system to use. I saw that Buschur Racing stated that all of their cars run the HKS VPC. Well, I sat here for about an hour trying to think of pros/cons of this.
Pro: No MAS in the intake system equaling better intake air flow
Con: Is $1300 really worth that?! I can buy an AEM EMS for that (Laptop still required).
Pro: HKS GCC plugs right into it for fuel management.
Con: GCC costs like $550.
Pro: BOV vents to atmosphere.
Con: None. Everyone loves that noise and it's more accurate (from what i hear, never done this before).
Pro: Turbo/Injector size is all adjustable.
Con: Can't see one.

Plain and simple, should i get a VPC if my plans include a t3/t4 w/660cc injectors? or, Would an APEXi S-AFC be sufficient? Looking at like $1900 for fuel management, no MAS, and Speed Density system's accuracy worth it?

There are many other ways to go about Air/Fuel Management but which is best?

 

[90GSX]

You may also consider the fact that you cannot buy a new VPC, HKS discontinued them. GCC's are still available.

I have a VPC and a GCC (on loan). I like the VPC, it's simple, and effective, albeit a bit crude. Some tuners swear by it, some curse it.
There are some side effects that you may not be aware of. For example, the car will stuble a bit upon initial throttle tip in.
I have a VPC b/c I got a sweet deal off ebay from someone who didn't know what they had. Lucky me.

As an alternative, the 2G MAS is commonly rated capable upwards of 400HP. There is at least one individual running a 2GMAS/SAFC/T3/T4/660cc setup in a mid 11 sec 1G. It's a capable setup, that doesn't have some of the side effects of the VPC, and is cheaper as well.

Basically, you really need to consider your goals. If you plan to make more than 400HP, then you might try to find a used VPC. If 400 is enough, a 2G MAS/SAFC might be a better choice.

 

[LAZPNO]

Sweet Thanks Eric.

 

[rdrkt]

Im making 400+ to the wheels on pump gas using a hacked MAS and SAFC. VPC can be nice for some people but not required unless you are looking to make HUGE power.

 

[sleeperTSi]

Go with the VPC GCC combo, i run it and i see no major problems with it, other then the GCC harness casues the idle to surge for no apparent reason. You really don't even need the GCC unless you really want to fine tune the VPC. You can pick them up used for real cheap though.....i actaully have a freind that is selling his VPC. The AEM EMS is a very good system to use also, the only problem is, everytime you upgrade something, you need to have the whole thing re-programed....so if your looking to do alot more mods to the car, it's more of a hasel then its worth.....go with the VPC


Bored and lonely at the shore

 

[4ged4G63]

sleeperTSI how much does your friend want for his vpc? PM me when you get a chance please.

 

[LAZPNO]

Well, here's how it goes... plannin on the Denso Supra pump w/ 660's and either an L2 or a t3/t4, i would think that the APEX AFC should work just fine, the boost isn't gonna be way up or anything, the car is my daily driver and i plan on takin it to the track like once a week. So, do u think the AFC would be ok? I'm really not an overkill type of guy, just plannin to use the AFC and a Datalogger.

 

[1LE]

VPC+GCC+Cams=really bad and unpredictable idle No problem on throttle tip-in though. That's adjustable on the VPC...

 

[90GSX]

Originally posted by 1LE
VPC+GCC+Cams=really bad and unpredictable idle No problem on throttle tip-in though. That's adjustable on the VPC...

What cams are you running that cause your car to idle "really bad and unpredictable"?

Response is adjustable on the VPC, but this does not compensate for the initial off idle stumble. The ECU still delays fuel injection because of the code that deals with what I've coined "air travel time". See this thread for more details

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=95443#post95443

Theres nothing that can be done about this, since the VPC cannot give the ECU "advance warning" on how much fuel to inject.

 

[P8ntBalla]

i have heard rumors that the vpc can give like 20-30 hp. true?

also, wouldnt the safc help with the idle?

 

[P8ntBalla]

i meant the stumble off idle.

how harsh is the stumble?

i want a vpc on my daily driver but if every time i leave a light the car gives me whiplash i dont like it.

 

[candela]

Hey LAZPNO just stick with an afc, its works fine and many people are kowledgable and can help you tune with it. There are plenty of 1g mas's in the 11's and way too many in the 12's including me. If its your daily driver the sfc is very easy and practical as well as your 1g mas (hacked of course) upwards of 400hp...

 

[90GSX]

Originally posted by P8ntBalla
i meant the stumble off idle.

how harsh is the stumble?

i want a vpc on my daily driver but if every time i leave a light the car gives me whiplash i dont like it.

I've explained the cause of this off-idle stumble in a previous post, and theres NOTHING that can be done about it, short of reprogramming the ECU to eliminated the delay that causes the stumble.

The good news is that it's really not that bad. After a year I barely notice it.

 

[1LE]

Originally posted by 90GSX

What cams are you running that cause your car to idle "really bad and unpredictable"?

Response is adjustable on the VPC, but this does not compensate for the initial off idle stumble. The ECU still delays fuel injection because of the code that deals with what I've coined "air travel time". See this thread for more details

HKS 264/264 cams. Car pulls like a beast, but doesn't idle for anything

I've read the thread before. Disregarded with a "huh" I don't have that problem. What you say may be technically correct, but doesn't seem to apply to my car as it doesn't have that particular problem. Got plenty of other problems though! Oh yeah, there's supposed to be some smileys in this, but the posting thing says I'm not allowed to use them... Insert as necessary!

 

[1LE]

Oh, forgot. VPC/GCC is too expensive if you can find it. Spend the $$$ on a standalone, won't cost much (if any) more and will be way better I bet...

 

[tjh-dsm]

FWIW, if you're dead set on getting a VPC, you can find some on Ebay, b/c guys in the military stationed in Japan find those and Bov's on wrecked cars and sell em there. From what I understand it's the same as the U.S. version, you'd just need and English manual.

 

[90GSX]

Originally posted by 1LE
Oh, forgot. VPC/GCC is too expensive if you can find it. Spend the $$$ on a standalone, won't cost much (if any) more and will be way better I bet...

So which standalone system are you running?

 

[AWDGSXownsU]

F#$k HK$ VPC. get the AEM EMS. full standalone engine management system. sell your stock ecu and apex i safc and your boost controller and your mas and buy the aEM EMS and map and temp sensors convert your car to speed density system and have a full standalone for around 600-700 after your done selling your stuff.

My .02 cents

 

[P8ntBalla]

do you have the ems?

 

[AWDGSXownsU]

yes i do have the EMS. got it last weekend when it came out FRIDAY for the 1g's from AEM. was there for 8 hours waiting for my friend to get it but i finally got it.

 

[P8ntBalla]

do you have to wait for your laptop to start every time you start your car? does it have to be constantly on and open when youre driving around?

 

[AWDGSXownsU]

no you only need the laptop to tune. once you program a fuel and igntion map. after you set that map your car will run on that map until you plug in the laptop and change the map. you dont even need the laptop to datalog. the aem ems has an internal datalogger which saves a datalogged pull and displayes it on a pda or laptop the next time its plugged in.

 

[1LE]

Originally posted by 90GSX


So which standalone system are you running?

I'm not.... Yet... Thinking about switching as I'm not happy with the HKS setup. I'd imagine there's a reason they've discontinued it!!!