Which stroker is best?

[v8s_are_slow]

Wondering if we can make this a sticky kinda like the Holet threads? I'm trying to search of 2.1, 2.2, etc., but the search feature doesn't like numbers like that.

Anyway, a buddy of mine (who is also on the forum) has a 2.4 setup. I told him I'd love to have the crank and he asked why not just get the whole motor. Then it hit me. Why DON'T I get the whole motor??? I have a spun rod bearing on the number 1 cylinder so looks like it's time for a build for me and thinking stroker might be best for me, but not as educated as I'd like to be.

I don't know the differences between the 2.3 and the 2.4 motors. I know the 2.3 just basically needs different pistions, 2.4 crank, and some clearancing and that's pretty much the only difference I guess. I'm also wanting to build an aluminum rod motor but not sure how much clearancing would be needed or cost involved to get that done. I know Tim Zimmer did it but I'm not Tim Zimmer and sure he has more money than me. Lol.

As for any of the other motors, I have no clue about any of them. Don't know what parts have to be swapped out, not sure what rev limit each is good for. Not sure what cars to get parts from for "X" motor, etc. Would sure be nice to have ONE thread to be able to find most of this stuff in. Any help would be awesome. Thanks.

[Sebba]

Originally Posted by v8s_are_slow

Wondering if we can make this a sticky kinda like the Holet threads? I'm trying to search of 2.1, 2.2, etc., but the search feature doesn't like numbers like that.

Anyway, a buddy of mine (who is also on the forum) has a 2.4 setup. I told him I'd love to have the crank and he asked why not just get the whole motor. Then it hit me. Why DON'T I get the whole motor??? I have a spun rod bearing on the number 1 cylinder so looks like it's time for a build for me and thinking stroker might be best for me, but not as educated as I'd like to be.

I don't know the differences between the 2.3 and the 2.4 motors. I know the 2.3 just basically needs different pistions, 2.4 crank, and some clearancing and that's pretty much the only difference I guess. I'm also wanting to build an aluminum rod motor but not sure how much clearancing would be needed or cost involved to get that done. I know Tim Zimmer did it but I'm not Tim Zimmer and sure he has more money than me. Lol.

As for any of the other motors, I have no clue about any of them. Don't know what parts have to be swapped out, not sure what rev limit each is good for. Not sure what cars to get parts from for "X" motor, etc. Would sure be nice to have ONE thread to be able to find most of this stuff in. Any help would be awesome. Thanks.

My boss owns a 2.2L 9 sec EVO. I asked him why the 2.2 and he blurted out reason after reason why he thought the 2.2 was optimal. He's owns one of the most reputable shops here in Austin so I usually take his word for stuff.

Sorry I can't be of any more help, I know almost nothing about strokers beyond the basics.

The 2.2 does make sense though.

[bryanwheat]

A 2.4 isn't a stroker, it is a stock built engine. The 2.3 is a 2.0 block with a 100mm stroke crank from the 2.4. The 2.2 is a 2.0 block with an aftermarket 94mm stroke crankshaft. The 2.1 is not a stroker, it is a destroked engine. It is a 2.4 block with a 2.0 crank. The 2.1 will make it's power in the higher rpm's and have less torque, the 2.3 and 2.4 will make more torque and less power in the higher rpm's. The 2.2 is a good in the middle engine of the 2.

[Tiki2777]

2.1l revs higher than any of your 2L options, including the stock 2.0! And you still have the added displacment benefit. If i ever have to build a motor for my DSM, i will definitely be building a 2.1l. Best option IMHO (2.3's and 2.4's are nice but, no worth it in my opinion because of the loss up top)

[this_tsi_8urV8]

With cams and a big turbo, do you Really lose up top though? I don't think you lose, perhaps you don't gain as much as the other options, but I believe it's a good compromise. As Carol Shelby said: torque wins races.

[Sebba]

Originally Posted by this_tsi_8urV8

With cams and a big turbo, do you Really lose up top though? I don't think you lose, perhaps you don't gain as much as the other options, but I believe it's a good compromise. As Carol Shelby said: torque wins races.

You lose RPM.

[v8s_are_slow]

Well, I know Buschur recommends the 2.3 to be the best. I "think" Shep and Brent were using 2.0's? I don't see much about the other motors though.

Anyway, if possible, I'd LOVE it if e could keep this thread strictly factual. Not opinions, etc. I see that crap in other threads and quickly lose interest.

[gofer]

What it comes down to is what are YOUR goals for the car, i.e., drag racing, auto x, DD'ing, or all three? Because, just like every other modification you decide on, that matters most.

I love driving my car on the street as much as possible and as much as I'd like it to be a track only straight line DSM I could never completely commit to that. So, in my case, I chose to build a 2.3 because of the streetability you retain even running a bigger turbo.

You can also stroke a 2.4 to a 2.6l if you've got the coin.

4G64 BLOCK W/4G63 HEAD 2.6L STROKER KIT

Also, when discussing my 2.3 build with Tim he HIGHLY recommend against running aluminum rods in a 2.3 because of all the clearancing that needed to be done.

[rr06rs]

Long rod 2.4ltr. Most displacement of all and still can rev it just as high as a 2ltr. I honestly don't know why u don't see more people around here running them. The EVO guys are running these in slews!!! Theoretically, its the best all around because your havin your cake and eatin it too!

[Sebba]

You can spin a 2.4 up to 10k?

[v8s_are_slow]

Originally Posted by gofer

Also, when discussing my 2.3 build with Tim he HIGHLY recommend against running aluminum rods in a 2.3 because of all the clearancing that needed to be done.

Yes, but his Groden aluminum rods are bigger than the normal Groden rod (hope he doesn't mind me talking about his setup at all). I'm not sure how much clearancing would be needed normally. There was one thread on here where a guy said he bought GRP's I believe and they wouldn't fit but ordered the Grodens and they worked for him I believe? I know the caps don't protrude out so far though with those rods if you look at comparison pics. So, I dunno if it'll work or not....but sure hope so.

Anyway, I'm reading this thread that YZFR1 posted...
Stroke or Not, Mitsubishi 4G63

Lots of reading but don't see anything about 2.4's and I don't think 2.2's are menioned either. But I'm not done reading yet either. It's a lot to read.

What I WOULD like to see in this thread is something more along the lines of...
*2.0 motors, obvious what's involved and how it reacts.
*2.1 motors.
-Need "X" parts from "X" cars to make this motor. Clearancing was needed/not needed. You can expect it to behave like "this" when compared to a 2.0 and rev limit is "X". Expect slow/fast spool. Good for street/strip/auto-x/etc. Exect "X" parts to break and you should upgrade this and this to make it last.
*2.2 motors, same as above. You get the idea.

For me, I have no idea if I use stock rod length for a 2.4 motor and I do know I'd need a different timing belt and cam gears (where to get the parts I don't know). I know the 2.3 just needs a 2.4 crank, different pistons, and clearancing to build it.

Stuff like this is what I'd like to know. But would like ALL the info to be put out there for one thread for others to see. Kind of like my Turbo Education thread.

[rr06rs]

Originally Posted by Sebba

You can spin a 2.4 up to 10k?

A long rod 2.4 with 94mm crank and 156mm rods.......yes you most certainly can. I have one in my EVO and take it to 9200 but plenty have gone 10k and higher.

[gofer]

Stuff like that was created/answered years ago man if all you're looking for are the "recipes" to those motor builds.
MM 4g Detailed Engine List

[91stocker]

Kiggly winds his 2.3 out pretty damn high.

[v8s_are_slow]

Originally Posted by gofer

Stuff like that was created/answered years ago man if all you're looking for are the "recipes" to those motor builds.
MM 4g Detailed Engine List

Thanks. That helps. Now can someone please explain the differences between the two 2.4 motors and what parts are used please? Didn't realize there was a long rod and Stroker 2.4 motor.

[rr06rs]

Dude, you have a chart sitting right in front of you with the differences and parts used???

[fosforito95]

i think what he means is what type of piston is used standard,stroker, or standard? also as someone mentioned i heard to build a 2.1 you have to modify something with the timing belt but not sure on that. Also i read on some thread that using a 4g64 block you have to modify some things to make the tranny fit in it. can some clarify that?

[v8s_are_slow]

Exactly. I mean if I build a 2.4 long rod motor I guess it's just the stock 2.4 crank, stock length 4g63 rods and regular pistons? How do you stroke it? I'm not sure what parts are used and wonder if a stroked 2.4 needs clearancing. The chart doesn't tell me all that.

[iugrad92turbo]

my friends 2.3 stroker on his spyder awd, is nice and has some torque on the street.

[TSITurbo95]

It all comes down to your goals. I daily drive mine so I went with a 2.3 stroker. The torque is outstanding. After owning a 2.3, I won't go back to a 2.0 unless I was strictly drag racing.

[Ludachris]

I can tell you that Magnus suggested I stick with a 2.3L for my 1g track car (road racing) when I was asking about their 2.1L and 2.2L - I already have a 2.3L in the car now. I let them know I'd be running either a bb 50-trim or a GT3076R-like turbo. Hope that helps.

[gofer]

Originally Posted by v8s_are_slow

Exactly. I mean if I build a 2.4 long rod motor I guess it's just the stock 2.4 crank, stock length 4g63 rods and regular pistons? How do you stroke it? I'm not sure what parts are used and wonder if a stroked 2.4 needs clearancing. The chart doesn't tell me all that.

Your not looking at that chart at all.

2.4 long rod (pulling info directly from that chart) uses 156mm rods (stock length is 150mm) and a 100mm crank. Ignore the 2.4 "stroker" Magnus has listed in that chart because it's not actually a stroked engine, if it were a 2.4 "stroker" then it would be a 2.6l with a custom 106mm crank, 150mm rods, and custom "stroker" pistons and that kit is linked above in my first post.

Clearancing a block isn't always a given for any engine build, at least not that I'm aware of. For example, when I put together my 7-bolt 2.3 build I decided to go with the stronger I-beam which, in turn, has a fatter big end which required clearancing because of the longer stroke. Now, if I had chosen to use an H-beam clearancing the block wouldn't have been necessary because the big end of the rod is a lot narrower. I also retained the BS's, which needed clearancing, which is something specific to my engine build. If I had done a 6-bolt stroker I might not have needed any clearancing, who knows? Again, it depends on what parts you choose and not always a given when talking about the engine (2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.6) you're building.

As I said before you need to A. decide what you plan on doing with the car & B. figure out your budget. Once that's done you can move onto a list of parts, i.e., crank, rods, pistons, etc. and what machining needs to be done. If I had money pouring out my ass and ears to fund my DSM build and make it a DRAG ONLY DSM I would have done a long rod 2.0 build, however, that isn't the case. So to go back to my original question that was left unanswered...

What are YOUR goals for the car?

[rr06rs]

The long rod 2.4 that I was refering to takes a 94mm crank, 156mm rods, standard 87mm 4g64 pistons, and 4g64 block. This IS the best all around setup, imo. Full displacement of the 4g64, revs like a 2.0. using a 4g63 block with stroker pistons, this can make a 2.1.

[gofer]

Originally Posted by rr06rs

The long rod 2.4 that I was refering to takes a 94mm crank, 156mm rods, standard 87mm 4g64 pistons, and 4g64 block. This IS the best all around setup, imo. Full displacement of the 4g64, revs like a 2.0. using a 4g63 block with stroker pistons, this can make a 2.1.

A 94mm crank in a 2.4l block doesn't give you the displacement of a 2.4, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it's in the ballpark of a 2.23 because the larger STD bore of a 4g64 piston (which would have to be 2.2 piston) with a either a 156mm or 162mm rod if you're going with a long rod 2.2.

[gofer]

This can clear up some of your questions too.

Displacement for various combinations of bore and stroke

The above I found from a link in this thread, which might be helpful too. ---> Advantages of a 2.1 Stroker?

There is plenty of information out there about each, you've just got to decide for yourself (after doing research) is best for your DSM.

[dsmusmc]

Originally Posted by rr06rs

A long rod 2.4 with 94mm crank and 156mm rods.......yes you most certainly can. I have one in my EVO and take it to 9200 but plenty have gone 10k and higher.

Originally Posted by gofer

A 94mm crank in a 2.4l block doesn't give you the displacement of a 2.4, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it's in the ballpark of a 2.23 because the larger STD bore of a 4g64 piston (which would have to be 2.2 piston) with a either a 156mm or 162mm rod if you're going with a long rod 2.2.

It would be a 2.2 destroke.

Hopefully next year i'll finally get to test out my 2.2 stroker…

[TunaTalon]

Originally Posted by v8s_are_slow

Anyway, I'm reading this thread that YZFR1 posted...
Stroke or Not, Mitsubishi 4G63

Lots of reading but don't see anything about 2.4's and I don't think 2.2's are menioned either. But I'm not done reading yet either. It's a lot to read.

That document is a copy of my white paper at http://www.kidzuku.com/StrokeOrNot.pdf. There was no separate section for the 2.4L because it has the same rod length and stroke as the 2.3L stroker. The main difference is that the 2.3L stroker piston has the wrist pin moved up 6mm.

After the research for that paper I decided that the best stroker for me was the 2.3L. But then I'm an old phart with fond memories of big displacement V8s pulling me under fresh green lights and no intent of ever racing the Talon. Your mileage may vary.

If you feel the need to hear the engine scream then go for the 2.1L.
If you want a daily driver without a lot of lag go for the 2.3L with a small turbo.

Or if you have impure thoughts and are willing to compromise, then study the physics and lore here and select a configuration to suit yourself.

Whatever combination of stroke and rod length you end up with the maximum horsepower will be limited by the turbo and sonic flow through the valves.

[Airsign89]

Another thing to consider if you decide to go with a 2.3 or 2.4 with a smaller turbo, is the huge amount of torque that you'll make in the mid range and how that will effect the reliability of your trans and other drivetrain parts. Just something to factor in.

[gprix1]

Originally Posted by Airsign89

Another thing to consider if you decide to go with a 2.3 or 2.4 with a smaller turbo, is the huge amount of torque that you'll make in the mid range and how that will effect the reliability of your trans and other drivetrain parts. Just something to factor in.

True true.. but for an auto trans, that would not be as much of an issue and should make it to where you don't need to re-stall the converter for a DD saving some $$$. Besides, how much actual torque does a small turbo put down. That's what I'm trying (Big T28, 2.3L) with my wifes '95 AWD Auto. Stock converter and reflashed TCU is the plan for that car.
For a MT, I wouldn't go smaller than a 20g which is what I run in my 2.4L and it hits hard.
As for the 'best' stroker. If it's a street driven DD I would build a long rod 2.4L if I could do it again (mine is standard 150mm rods). The grunt of a 2.4L is just awesome for around town and is still safe for 8k rpms with no problems.

[fosforito95]

yea i believe i would go with the long rod 2.0 just because i wouldn't have to deal with the some modifications you have to do to get the timing belt to fit. I also heard that with the 4g64 block you also may have problems mounting the tranny but im uncertain of that