Hey guys, Everyone is always talking about E.T's and how low they wanna get. Most people just get a big turbo and run race gas to get there. Well my goal is a little different. I dont wanna run race gas. I want to keep my car on Pump 93 and maybe 94-95 on some nights. I want this car to be a fun daily driver and a weekend warrior. My Goals are simple and realistic. I want around 350-450 horses at 20-21 psi at the crank. I would like to see full boost around 3700 to 4000 rpm. I also want low 12's pass's on pump gas and maybe high to mid 11's on race gas. I want this car to be fun and tunable at the same time. I am willing to save for what ever turbo you guys think that would best suite my needs. I realize that i will need all the supporting mods to go along with the turbo. Check my wishlist for a run down.

I had my mind set on the L2r, but it has just recently come to my attention that this turbo makes most of its power around 25psi and higher and even preforms better with race gas. Well i dont want to run that high nor do i want race gas. Now i was doing a little research and found that the 50trim seems to be the best Pump gas turbo that makes some serious power. Here is my problem. The 50trim has about 20 different setups that you can go with it. I have no ideal what i should be looking for. If anyone could please help me understand the different compressor sizes and stuff, or even point me to a web site i could read up on all of this, that would be great. Also what are the price ranges for these different setups? Maybe a website here would also help. Thanks for any help you can give me. I thought i knew what i was doing but i want to make sure i get the right turbo for my goals before I make a 1500 hundred dollar mistake.

i would definitely look at the gt-12 or gt-13 at slowboy.

well you got a ton of options but here are your best bets. Mind you these are all 50trim compressor wheels.

<b>FP Green</b> 1375.00
www.forcedperformance.net
Modified TDO6 Compressor housing/ 7 or 8 cm turbine housing
50 trim/ TDO6H clipped or not

Overall this is the one of the cheapest turbos out there that will get you to where you wanna go. People have gone 10s on the Green turbo but its better known for people managing to pull out consistent 11s and 400whp on pump gas. Ofcourse you would need to purchase an external gate and either an o2 dump mounted wastegate or manifold mounted gate which would easily put you up to the price of one of the full garret kits. An internal gate is an option as well.

<b>AGP L2</b> 950.00
www.agpturbo.com
T04E compressor / PTE turbine
50 trim / T3 Stage 3 turbine

AGP is a relatively new company compared to Forced Performance but Ben from AGP is very very helpful and will give you 110% of his support in your setup. This turbo should be nearly identical to the Green in performance if not better due to the T04E compressor housing vs the TD05 Compressor housing. Once again its about matching the right parts and this is as close to a full garret you can get without being full garret. It also requires the external wastegate and something to mount the gate on so once again you are up to the price of a full garret kit. An internal gate is an option as well.

<b>Slow Boy Racing SBR G50</b> 999.00
www.slowboyracing.com
T04E compressor / Mitsu 7cm Turbine housing
50 trim / T3 Stage 3 turbine

Identical to the AGP L2 except the Turbine housing.

<b>PTE 50trim</b> 995.00
www.precisionte.com
T04E compressor / PTE turbine
50 trim / T3 Stage 3 turbine

Precision is where alot of turbo resellers buy their turbos from. This turbo is pretty much identical to the AGP L2.

<b>AGP T3/T4 50trim</b> 1725.00
www.agpturbo.com
T04E compressor / T3 turbine
50 trim / T3 Stage 3 turbine
This kit is a full garret kit. For 1725.00 you get everything you need including SFP manifold, custom o2 housing, all lines, etc etc etc. Also you dont have to guess what parts are going to work well with another because its all Garret This is what i will be running on my car.

<b>Diamond Star Motorsports</b> T3/T4 50 trim 1900.00
www.diamondstarmotorsports.com
T04E compressor / T3 turbine
50 trim / T3 Stage 3 turbine
This kit is a full garret kit. For 1900.00 you get everything you need including turbonetics manifold, custom o2 housing, all lines, etc etc etc. Also you dont have to guess what parts are going to work well with another because its all Garret Difference between this kit and the AGP kit is price and the manifold. AGP is a cast manifold from SFP, the DSM one is a turbonetics manifold.

<b>RnR T3/T4 50 trim</b> 1495.00
www.rnrracing.com

RnR is another relatively new shop that I do not know enough about to offer much information on. I know the turbo they offer uses more turbonetics parts which some people tend to look down on. Contact Ryan @ RnR for more info.

hope this helps in your decision, dont forget you also have choices from other turbos. The L2R which you originally mentioned will also make pretty good power on pump gas if you can get the tuning down. And will make much more power up top once you turn the boost up on that race gas.

Sorry to any vendors I might have left out..

-edited- I've edited this post to contain all the correct info now.

very good info Larry

about the Dimond Star Motorsports T3/T4 kit, ive heared nothing but bad things about the manifold it includes. people say that its runners and #### are even smaller than the 2G manifold and some report that they cant fully close their hood because of the placement of the external wastegate.... thats what ive heard.......

yeah the turbonetics manifold blows because of where it places the external gate but they do sell an adapter that will move the gate down a little bit so its not an option.

McGruff,
If you want to be pump gas king then our (AGP) full Garrett kit with the 50trim option in the .63 a/r is a pretty decent contender. It comes with everything you need and has already run 11's on pump gas. No porting o2 housings or manifolds needed, it's all tubular.

Larry,
You are moderator of the year! That must have taken some real time to post all that. What a helpful guy.

Kevin,
worked on Larry's car today from 2500miles away

LarryD:
Not to be a dick, but you really should know what your talking about before you start giving pro's vs. cons.

"FP Green:
TD06 compressor / Mitsu 7cm Turbine
50 trim / not sure about turbine side "

Correct:
Modified TDO6 Compressor housing/ 7 or 8 cm turbine housing
50 trim/ TDO6H clipped or not

The L2 is $1100, not $950.

I'm dahm sure that they are using MHI 7cm, not PTE's copy of a 7cm.

This turbo should be nearly identical to the Green in performance if not better due to the T04E compressor housing vs the TD05 Compressor housing.

Click to expand...

Once again, Green td06 compressore housing, not tdo5. tdo5 is 16g. You are also forgetting something very important. Exhaust wheel, the tdo6h wheel will outflow the "stage 3" wheel. Mitsu turbine wheel in a mitsu turbine housing, they are made to fit mitsu housing, meaning better performance because it. The tdo6h wheel has made nasty HP #'s in a 7cm, the red which is a different turbo all together has laid over 500whp on a 6h/7cm combo.

You cant go wrong w/the AGP garret kit, its idiot proof. You'll get everything you need and will go real fast on shitty gas. 50trims rock.

The PTE's look very promising. Bolt on units that are under $1,000.

Just make sure you have the supporting mods before getting a big turbo.

...You are also forgetting something very important. Exhaust wheel, the tdo6h wheel will outflow the "stage 3" wheel. Mitsu turbine wheel in a mitsu turbine housing, they are made to fit mitsu housing, meaning better performance because it....

How do you figure? The H3 wheel has wider blades which will result in more exhaust hitting them, which results in more leverage, which results in faster spoolup. It also has one less blade than the TD06H wheel which means it is going to flow more. The H3 and the TD06H wheel are also roughly the same height. As far as the 'mitsu wheel in a mitsu housing' goes, I'd definately rather have the lesser of two evils by having a mix matched exhaust side than a mix matched compressor side (50 trim wheel in a machined 20G housing for the Green.) One of the primary issues with the Red turbo is compressor surge, and most people blame the small exhaust side with the big 62-1 compressor wheel. Granted that is a factor, however compressor surge DOES occur on the compressor side, and the large wheel in the small machined 20G housing carries much more of the blame. The Red turbo would benefit from a TO4E compressor housing more than it would benefit from a larger exhaust housing, although that sure wouldn't hurt either.

Regards,

I want around 350-450 horses at 20-21 psi at the crank.

Click to expand...

I'm not as keen on all the turbos as these great individuals we have here........

But 350ish on pump gas at the CRANK is not that hard of a task and doesn't take a Massive turbo to accomplish.
Big 16G at 20psi on 93 octane and dynoed 317ish and you can do the correction to crank horsepower......and big spool compaired to turbos listed and best of all $650.

Fastest Big 16g

75 11.850 116.47 7.554 91.56 1.603 93 Talon TSi big 16g

Click to expand...

I think a regular 20G will give you what you want.

Fastest 20g from Club DSM time slips....

33 11.342 122.69 7.313 96.94 1.667 92 Eclipse GSX 20g/TDO5

Click to expand...

And what about the Frank's.......one of the old dog's and well proven

LEVEL 4 FRANK MITSUBISHI TD05H 7CM TURBINE HOUSING WITH TD06 TURBINE WHEEL WITH 10-DEGREE CLIP, MITSUBISHI TD06 20G STYLE COMPRESSOR HOUSING WITH 3” INLET,
WITH 750CFM GARRETT COMPRESSOR WHEEL. SUPPORTS 570HP

Click to expand...

Hehe i kinda lured Larry into my post. I was doing a little reading on what kinda turbo set he wanted to go for and found out his goals are identical to mine. I knew he would be the one to chim in and show me all the good stuff. Thank you very very much larry. Your post on the turbos was awesome. You must of taken alot of time to do your reasearch.

I am still new to all of this and just want to do this right the first time. I just want a goal thats more streetable i guess. I am seriously considering the t3/t4 AGP kit that comes with everything. I never really imagined my car running a external but i guess there is something new for everyone. Back to the drawing board. Once again thank you.

I just have to add Larry, that I do not, or have not ever bought from PTE. Nor do I intend to.

Regards

Mike Huml

McGruffAWD, go with the T04E, 50 trim, stage 3 wheel, .63 AR turbo. This will be one of the best turbos you could get for pump gas performance and price. You can't go wrong at all with this. It will provide all the power you are looking for.

We sell this kit and it includes everythig needed to bolt it on. Turbo, SS header, 02 housing, Tial gate, lines, etc.


We also offer options like a full downpipe,3" 02 housing, 4 bolt housing, etc.

You mentioned about not wanting an external gate, but we can make it so that your ext gate with route back in the 02 housing(quiet). This is just another option we are offering our customers.

**Admin Edited** no pricing please.

I think i am going with the above setup. All i have been doing is reading up on it. Everyone really seems to like it. I have a couple problems tho.

#1 Ryan i just bought a 3inch 02 Elminator turbo back from you. It looks like if i do decided to go with this setup i may have to do some hacking to the exhaust to get another 02 housing on it. Something i really dont want to do..but i have a local shop that could more than likely do it.

#2 You kinda answered my question about the external waste gate. Everyone seems like they want it mounted on their 02 housing for obvious reasons, well how would i go about doing this? Does AGP or RNR have it to where the External is on the 02, and if so..i want it dumped back into the exhaust. I didnt see that option on either of your web sites. It looks like you guys are building it off a manifold external and are dumping it to the atmosphere.

#3 This all sounds awesome guys. It is really getting me into the mood to learn and really make this happen. But is this a really good thing for me to do? Jump from the t25 basically stock to a T4 external setup? I mean holy crap that is kinda big jump. I do alot of reading on this site and i am learning more and more as i go but should i just take the easy steps like t28 then go higher? I really think i am capable of making the jump to t25 to t4. Just wanted your personal opinions on that one.

#4 I have some money saved up and i make pretty good money. So money isnt reall the factor. Should i just get the setup and keep the boost low before i do a built up 6bolt swap? Or should I do the 6bolt swap before i do turbo swap?

Choices choices..I know the ultimate decision is up to me and you guys can only give me so much help. I really appricate all of you guys helping me. This topic thusfar is turning into a very nice thread. It is not only helping me but i am sure is helping others as well.

All our T3/T4 turbos are set up for manifold mounted gates. We can route them back into the downpipe as an option.

I would say the T3/T4 50 trim would be a jump for you from a T-25, but it's a pretty common upgrade now a days.

McGruffAWD we can modify your current RnR 3" 02 elim downpipe to work with our T3/T4 kits for a small amount. We don't want people to not be able to use our downpipes they have already bought from us so we are offering this option too.

Run the 7 bolt. As long as you don't get crankwalk run it until it dies. There is no need to get rid of prefectly good motor when you don't need a 6 bolt. With the 50 trim set up I wouldn't even recommend forged internals because the stock motor will handle it fine.

The 50 trim is an excellent 20-22 psi pump gas turbo. You can amke great power without the need for real high boost.

Thread of the week...Tons of useful info. I am in the same boat Kyle only I will be jumping from a 14b to t4. You guys rock!

Ryan you just made my day man. You are a great vendor. I will diffently come to you when i get all of my supporting mods in place. You have set my mind at ease..i think i am going to be rdy for the jump once i get all of my stuff in order.

If i plan on getting this kit in the future then when i get my exhaust i should get the standard turbo back not the o2 eliminator right

And what supporting fuel mods do u think you would need to run with this turbo, like what size injectors, fuel pump, etc

If you are planning on upgrading to a Garrett kit in the future then get a standard turbo back as it will save you money in the long run.


For supporting mods I suggest a 190lph, 660's, 2g mas, full 3" exhaust, s-afc, etc.

will an safc be sufficiant for tuning or will i need some kind of logging software

i plan on DSMlink, great logging and control

do you really think a 190lph pump will handle everything a 50 trim like that can do? even on race gas? I have a 190 now, and im positive i want a 50 trim. the last thing i want to do is the fuel pump again becuase i botched the install and it might leak if i do it again.

So yeah, will a rewired 190 and 550's/660's handle a 50 trim on race gas at high boost? (24-26psi)

If your running a 50trim in whatever setup you choose I'd say that the 550's are going to be getting pushed pretty hard especially on pump gas. You'd have to have a large pump and high fuel pressures, it can be done though on 550's.

To be safe I'd get 660's and at least a 255 winebro. A 190 rewired to 14V could do it, but once again it would be pushing it quite hard. If you want to do it right the 1st time, spend the extra cash and get a supra pump. It'll give you all the fuel you'll ever need on a 50trim at whatever boost, its toyota reliable and its quiet.

Plus if you get a bigger pump, you'll also want an FPR. Aeromotive/SX are proven. I'd stay away from the cheapy BM.

I just noticed you dont have any supporting mods, at least not on your profile and you want a 90-92 aka 6bolt motor, not a 91-95.

Start simple, then go big:
safc will work, dsmlink better of cour$e, greddy emanage
bov(hks,tial,etc)personly I dont like the greddy BOV's at all.
egt
some logging. d$mlink again or logger
supra pump, rewire it if you want to get crazy
aeromotive/sx fpr and fittings
Then 660's,fmic and turbo all at once.

You'd probably be best to start w/the little things and learn to tune the car before jumping to a bigger turbo. Tuning makes all the difference in the world.

So yeah, will a rewired 190 and 550's/660's handle a 50 trim on race gas at high boost? (24-26psi)

Click to expand...

It can, but like I said I'd be watching my fp gauge to see if it holds it up top. You'd have to be running quite high fuel pressure. One more thing 24-26 psi isnt "high boost" on a 50 trim. It makes power in 28-30psi range also.

im sold on that RNR kit, now i just need supporting mods and money............

So If I already have a 3in downpipe,cat,catback on my car and I buy a RNR garret setup, you can make it so the external gate will go right into the O2 housing? So i wouldnt have to touch the exhaust thats already on the car at all?