uh oh.. big puddle.. alt belt off, loud noise..

Korndogg · Mar 27, 2004

hey all
i'm pretty worried right now
it was raining hard last night and i was coming through town at 25 or so, and all of a sudden i hit this huge puddle.. more than the width of my car and i went straight through it.. it was a good 2inches deep.. maybe more.
anywho.. as soon as i went through it there was a loud noise and i first thought it was a belt.. dunno why.. just did.. so i pulled over very quickly and popped the hood.. it was midnight, and therefore dark.. so i felt around and felt the alternator belt was loose.. so that sucks.. but i figure that that belt was flappin around makin the noise.. so i worked on that in someone's muddy driveway for a while, but it became apparent that i would be unable to loosen the alternator and put the belt back on without being able to get under the car..
this is when i decided to cut off the belt.. the alternator belt burned off of my 1.8 once, and still drove for quite a while before getting hot.. so i figured i'd just drive it the 3/4 of a mile to my house after i cut the belt off and deal with it today... but after i cut the belt off... the same noise is made under the hood.. so that REALLY sucks.. i left it there for the night and today after work pushed it to a garage that happened to be just down the street... i decided i'd show him the sound, so i started it for him briefly.. he didn't have a lot to say about it except that he pointed at the driver's side engine mount and asked if it was supposed to move back and forth 1/8"..........
so yeah.. i'm pretty worried that this is real serious. i really don't know what to compare the sound to... it's fairly low pitched so you wouldn't think it would be metal on metal.. but it sounds like there's a lot more force being applied to whatever's making the noise so that you think it HAS to be metal/metal... so i'm really worried it's something internal.
if anyone has anything at all to say about this vague description.. i would be very thankful...
i know there's probly not much that can be told by my description... but this is the place i always come when i have problems wiht my DSM... and for good reason

thanks a lot

Korndogg · Mar 27, 2004

wow that's long.. sorry

just wanted to add.. the engine does start right up, and keeps running.. but sounds horrible... and the noise is definitely RPM dependent..

recap:
big puddle caused;
-alt belt off pulleys
-loud noise from engine - concerned that it's internal

also.. maybe I'm crazy.. but it looked to me like the pulley which is the hardest to see that the alt. belt goes around might be cockeyed... does that make any sense at all? how could a puddle do that?.. I'm thinking it was just the angles or something..

thanks again!

crankbender · Mar 27, 2004

The big double pully at the bottom that you can see behind the plastic in the wheel well. The one that you can touch from the bottom?

That one is the harmonic balancer read my post in this thread as it just happened to somebody else.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113209

Korndogg · Mar 27, 2004

heh... i'm confused.. i don't really see how those posts help me...
but uh, yeah.. the double pulley is the one i was talkin about..

Korndogg · Mar 27, 2004

and what's the possibility or likelyhood that this problem is related to the timing belt?

crankbender · Mar 27, 2004

Read the link all the way to the bottom.......

Korndogg · Mar 27, 2004

...i did....

are you saying you think those bolts are sheared off?.. and if that IS what you're saying.. how by the water?

crankbender · Mar 27, 2004

did you go and look if they are sheared or missing or anything??? doesn't it say to look for that.

Either way your harmonic balancer is no longer connected to your crank and that is BAD. now that we know what is wrong and it is something simple we don't have to worry about the how just the "how to fix".

Not tryin to be mean i just can't see your car from here

Korndogg · Mar 27, 2004

heh, sorry.. i just drove down to the garage that my car is at.. layed on the ground and felt the double pulley.. i can't get it to budge at all.. but i also can't see into it.. so i can't see the bolts.. but uh.. there's another bel i havn't noticed before (havn't had the car more than a few weeks) that's the furthest one back.. and it's inside out :confused:

how the hell did that happen? it's inside out and very loose...
the notches on the belt are facing outward all the way around, with the smooth side against the pullies....

i think that double pulley is seriously messed up.. maybe it IS c0ck-eyed now.. but it musta gotten bent .. i don't evne know.. i'm confused...

crankbender · Mar 27, 2004

Try watching it while you turn it by hand. get the car out of gear and rotate it with a half inch extension and ratchet. ONLY turn it CLOCKWISE...

If it is cockeyed you will see it. The noise might have just been the other belt...can't imagine why it was loose and how it got turned around (it is for your ac).

Korndogg · Mar 27, 2004

heh.. i don't think i can do that... i don't have a way to get the car off the ground other than just a scissor jack.... and also, i could barely get my fingers between the pully and whatever's right next to it.. dunno how i'd get a ratched in there iether unless that was just the splash gaurd i was against... (.. i'm running off of 3 hours of sleep.. sorrry i'm not being very observant.. heh heh)
thanks a lot for all your input thoug, i really appreciate it

Korndogg · Mar 27, 2004

i was on the highway for 30-40 minutes right before running through the puddle... my dad's thinking that the temperature difference could have warped the double pulley extremely quickly causing both of the belts to be messed up... sound possible?
thanks again

crankbender · Mar 27, 2004

Originally posted by Korndogg
heh.. i don't think i can do that... i don't have a way to get the car off the ground other than just a scissor jack.... and also, i could barely get my fingers between the pully and whatever's right next to it.. dunno how i'd get a ratched in there iether unless that was just the splash gaurd i was against... (.. i'm running off of 3 hours of sleep.. sorrry i'm not being very observant.. heh heh)
thanks a lot for all your input thoug, i really appreciate it

Turn steering wheel to left. Get a 36" 1/2" extension. Stick extension in crank. Stick ratchet in harmonic balancer. turn!!!

Just have somebody stick their schnaz under there and watch it as it turns.

Boostd20psi · Mar 28, 2004

yea man, you gotta watch out for big @$$ puddles like that. I had a stock airfilter on my car and hit one and my air filter was SOAKED and the car would stall ALL the time. Check the Air filter, and check the upper "L" pipe for water inside of there. If there is some then take off all the piping from the I/C to the throttlebody and dry it out and buy a new Air Filter. However if you have an aftermarket airfilter then check it anyways. But yea its probably the harminic balancer...I actually have mine completely off...I didnt know that until AMS in Arlington heights, IL told me you dont have one LOL

....oh well...

Kenny

[email protected]

Korndogg · Mar 28, 2004

alright.. now here's what's going on.. and i took pics because this is a hard one for me to explain

today i cut off the (inside-out) AC belt.. the car then sounded better when it started, but it was obviously still messed up.. while having a friend start the car, i observed the double pulley to be COMPLETELY out of wack.. it wobbled back and forth at least 3/8".....

so i jacked the car up and removed the splash gaurd and attempted to remove the double pully.. couldn't really figure out how so i just removed the 4 little bolts.. that didn't seem to do a damn thing though.. and i couldn't get the large middle bolt loose because the crank would just turn... (...why does the crank turn when the car is in gear?)

i got annoied because i wanted the car at my dad's instead of in this parking lot.. there's a kid that's been threatening to mess up my car.. so i tapped on the double pully a bit hoping that it'd go back into place... not that i expected it to.. but suprizingly enough.. it went right back... the double pully just slides around on a cylindrical ..thing.... and it's completely loose...

i will post 2 pics to show what i am explaining... so my real question is simply this: how do i remove/replace this double pully? or is it something i should just have a garage do?

thanks a lot

(pully when it's where it should be...)

Korndogg · Mar 28, 2004

like how that's all beat up from wackin the body?

by the way.. how did the water cause this? rapid temperature change? and is there any possible engine damage from having this crap happen?
thanks

(pully when i yank it off of this cylindrical thing... the pully is just completely loose on this)

crankbender · Mar 28, 2004

That is your harmonic balancer. It is held on by those 4 little bolts I assure you...don't mess with the center unless you want to pull your timing belt pully.

You need a new harmonic balancer.

frogman1286 · Jun 20, 2004

Im Trying to get that pully OFF, how do i crack that center bolt? All i am finding on here is how to get the four little bolts off, and i have, now do i just hit it witha hammer to take it off or what? :confused:

CurtTSI · Jun 20, 2004

It's just held on by the 4 bolts. Take them out and the pulley should come right off. If not, bang or pry on it a bit.

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uh oh.. big puddle.. alt belt off, loud noise..

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