Not sure if this is the correct place for this . . .

Car is down for a motor rebuild and I'm looking to address some of the heating issues I experienced earlier in the season after upgrading to a PTE FMIC.

Attached are some pix of the ducting/shrouds I'll be making out of some 040 aluminum tomorrow and would like some input/feedback from those of you who may have some experience in keeping these things cool.

Does this setup look like it's going to help?

Looks like it should work well.

Looks good man You should check out this thread too, it's the same general idea just applied in different ways.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224201

Hmmm, it may work to some extent, but I would think that redirecting the air coming in through the fog light holes would also be efficient (of course, you would have to be willing to remove the fog lights first). Obviously, a ventilated hood would do wonders in keeping under-hood temperatures lower than usual.

It will work very well. You have nothing on the sides in front of your radiator so not all air that is passing through your i/c is going through your radiator. By building that you are pretty much making it flow through the radiator.

Let us know how it goes.

That is an awesome ducting job.
Do you plan on putting something to deflect air down thru the upper portion of the rad?
How do you plan on assembling the ducting?
Also, what PTE IC is that.
What are the dims, and is it a kit, where did you get it, and how much $.

I'm in the market for a new FMIC, and I'm very partial to the Hahn Racecraft FMIC with the integrated cross-over tube, but it's damn near $900 bones, and it only comes with piping to get you to the stock SMIC outlet.

Keep up the good work!

In addition, I would suggest that a "lip" be made so that incoming air gets caught and directed to the radiator. Just looking at the first picture, extending the lip out to about halfway under the intercooler should drastically increase the effectiveness of the air duct.

^ I agree. I would extend that flap on the underside of the FMIC about an inch or so to grab some of the air that would otherwise go under the car.

Do you have anything to go over the top of the FMIC? I made mine out of sheet metal that basically mimiced the stock piece adapted to the intercooler. That way the front of the IC was completely boxed with the front of the bumper i.e. any air that goes into the mouth of the bumper is directed right through the IC and radiator.

DSMunknown said:

Hmmm, it may work to some extent, but I would think that redirecting the air coming in through the fog light holes would also be efficient (of course, you would have to be willing to remove the fog lights first). Obviously, a ventilated hood would do wonders in keeping under-hood temperatures lower than usual.

Click to expand...

True . . . fresh air directed around the FMIC would definitely help, but removing the fogs is out of the question- I've spent too much effort to keep the stock ones and still be able to run a decent FMIC. Only way I'd really remove em is if I was going pure track setup . . . then they would most likely feed brake cooling ducts.

wishihadatalon said:

It will work very well. You have nothing on the sides in front of your radiator so not all air that is passing through your i/c is going through your radiator. By building that you are pretty much making it flow through the radiator.

Let us know how it goes.

Click to expand...

Will definitely keep the thread updated . . . I'm making it out of 0.040" aluminum this weekend. Already have the lower-center portion finished, just need the two side pieces tweaked.

Strm Trpr said:

That is an awesome ducting job.
Do you plan on putting something to deflect air down thru the upper portion of the rad?
How do you plan on assembling the ducting?
Also, what PTE IC is that.
What are the dims, and is it a kit, where did you get it, and how much $.

I'm in the market for a new FMIC, and I'm very partial to the Hahn Racecraft FMIC with the integrated cross-over tube, but it's damn near $900 bones, and it only comes with piping to get you to the stock SMIC outlet.

Keep up the good work!

Click to expand...

I was thinking about making a top piece for it as well, but decided to hold off for a bit. If this design works, I will go back and make a top piece to make it even more efficient, but if it doesn't, I may consider cutting some holes in the facia right above the bumper support to get fresh air to the Radiator . . . pretty much like the EVOs are setup. . . if I go that route, making a 'top' piece would just be a waste of time.

As for assembly, I'm just building the 3 pieces out of .040" aluminum sheet metal. I'd like to get the 3 pieces welded together, but will probably just settle for using some aluminum tape to seal up the seams. Will also be using some rubber hose around the edges that seal off against the FMIC. Will definitely post pix when it's finished.

The FMIC I got from Bushur Racing . . . it's a PTE core, but they do the custom end tanks over there at Bushur -- it's their 2g Race core (24" Long x 3 1/2" wide x 11"). Jarrod over there is awesome . . . he hadn't heard of anyone putting one of these in and keeping the stock fogs. It took just a tiny bit of modification to get it to work, but nothing serious.

DSMunknown said:

In addition, I would suggest that a "lip" be made so that incoming air gets caught and directed to the radiator. Just looking at the first picture, extending the lip out to about halfway under the intercooler should drastically increase the effectiveness of the air duct.

Click to expand...

Thought about that too . . .but with as low as everything is sitting now, I really dont want to have anything else hanging down much lower. Aside from that, extending the lower duct further down to act as a "ram air" of sorts would force me to also change the angle it comes off of the lower radiator support much closer to a 90* angle, and that definitely wouldn't help airflow.

Another thing to consider would be if I had higher velocity air moving under the FMIC and coming back up behind it . . . how is that going to affect the air passing through the FMIC?

Thanks for the feedback guys, I'll be sure to post up pix as it progresses.

small things do wonders...I noticed a major difference ( no numbers though) in under hood temp when I opened up the grill on my Spyder.You see the hole between the lights.
I dont have numbers as said but after a hard drive I felt the engine bay was alot cooler then before...small hole but it did alot since the air passed right through and into the engine bay. In my mind it should have created a better flow of air under the hood wich allows for better cooling, but I cannot say for sure if that was the reason:

EuroGSTSpyder said:

small things do wonders...I noticed a major difference ( no numbers though) in under hood temp when I opened up the grill on my Spyder.You see the hole between the lights.
I dont have numbers as said but after a hard drive I felt the engine bay was alot cooler then before...small hole but it did alot since the air passed right through and into the engine bay. In my mind it should have created a better flow of air under the hood wich allows for better cooling, but I cannot say for sure if that was the reason:

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's definitely one idea I'm exploring . . . think what I'll do for now is see how this duct work fairs next summer and if I need more cooling on the track, then I will open up the fascia . . . since I have a coolant temp gauge, I should be able to get some numbers and post the results if it ever comes to that.

I'm also hoping to get a vented CF hood sometime in the near future as well which should help airflow through the radiator and under-hood temps.

Just a quick update . . .

I took the cardboard templates and made some new ones out of .040" aluminum. Pretty easy work with a little patience, a sheet metal break and some tin snips.

After that was all done, I sliced open some rubber vacuum line and put it on the edges that mate up to the FMIC to protect the fins & end tanks. When I was satisfied with that, I wanted to work on sealing off the gaps between the condenser core and radiator. Turns out the closed-cell foam Lowes sells for wrapping water pipes worked perfectly. Make sure to get the kind that has sticky glue on the long edge if you go this route.

Great work man. Not a chance in hell that baby is gonna overheat...

CanadianTSi said:

Great work man. Not a chance in hell that baby is gonna overheat...

Click to expand...

I sure hope that's the case!! I'll be sure to let you guys know the results . . .

tsunari said:

Just a quick update . . .

I took the cardboard templates and made some new ones out of .040" aluminum. Pretty easy work with a little patience, a sheet metal break and some tin snips.

After that was all done, I sliced open some rubber vacuum line and put it on the edges that mate up to the FMIC to protect the fins & end tanks. When I was satisfied with that, I wanted to work on sealing off the gaps between the condenser core and radiator. Turns out the closed-cell foam Lowes sells for wrapping water pipes worked perfectly. Make sure to get the kind that has sticky glue on the long edge if you go this route.

Click to expand...

You did a really really good job with that.

Subscribing. The aluminum you used, where did you get it? Is it the same stuff contractors use to wrap windows and fascia boards with? I may steal your idea since my car is down at the moment too.

DevilSperm said:

Subscribing. The aluminum you used, where did you get it? Is it the same stuff contractors use to wrap windows and fascia boards with? I may steal your idea since my car is down at the moment too.

Click to expand...

Steal away . . . no sense in keeping a good idea to myself.

As for the aluminum, I actually have a friend that works for a sign company and they have a TON of scrap. So you could either find a sign place in your area, or I believe I have seen places like Home Depot or maybe even Lowes carry squares of sheet metal in different gauges . . . although I'm not sure what gauge 0.040" would equate to. I definitely wouldn't suggest going to anything thicker than 0.080" though.

1 -- it will be more difficult to work with
2 -- more expensive
3 -- needless addition of weight

Oh! Another place you could source the aluminum . . . McMasterCarr . . . but it will be a bit more expensive with the shipping charges and what-not, but they always have good quality materials.

Make sure to post back results if you end up doing it

Good chance I'll do it next weekend, I've been itching to do something to it while I wait for my machine work. My old boss actually uses an aluminum like that, I'm not sure what gauge or anything but its fairly stiff with a PVC coating on one side. I really like the looks of yours so far, nice work.

i just want to say to you uys that ducting can work if done right, but what you do is pull out the ac core from the rad and thow it in the scrap. then you can up grade fans that pull more air if needed. or use a smaller intercooler so you dont block so much are to the rad, and use water and meth to cool the charge air and have bigger power gains, with you would not have to use water and meth all the time, with driving lady like keep it off and when you want power pore it to it

DevilSperm said:

Good chance I'll do it next weekend, I've been itching to do something to it while I wait for my machine work. My old boss actually uses an aluminum like that, I'm not sure what gauge or anything but its fairly stiff with a PVC coating on one side. I really like the looks of yours so far, nice work.

Click to expand...

Sounds good man- drop me a line if you have any questions as to how I did something and good luck!

CrazyGSX said:

i just want to say to you uys that ducting can work if done right, but what you do is pull out the ac core from the rad and thow it in the scrap. then you can up grade fans that pull more air if needed. or use a smaller intercooler so you dont block so much are to the rad, and use water and meth to cool the charge air and have bigger power gains, with you would not have to use water and meth all the time, with driving lady like keep it off and when you want power pore it to it

Click to expand...

I will agree that removing the A/C components will definitely get more air to the radiator as will using a thinner FMIC core. In my case, I'm keeping the A/C because I enjoy being able to see through my non-fogged windows when it's wet outside and as far as using a thinner core, I'm not entirely sure 3" would be considered "too thick" . . . guess I'll find out

As for water/meth injection . . . I do understand how they help to quelch detonation, but it is my belief that in a properly setup system there should really be no need for it. Not only that, but I really don't think it has a place being on a road-course/track vehicle. . . drag-strip would be a different beast altogether.

Now its summer I seem to be running slightly warm around 215-225F


I know there is a thread about creating ducting for guys with FMIC. Anyone on here have coolant temp problems by having the huge SSAC FMIC? It sits so close to the a/c rad that there really isn't room to put some ducting in. And I dont really want to take it all off again.

Some things I might do
New thermostat-going with a 180 instead of the 190 (if it's worth it)
New radiator-do those ebay ones work any better?
Hood vent
custom ducting

I custom made a ram air intake and that helped lower my air temp by 8 degrees.

red_devil said:

Now its summer I seem to be running slightly warm around 215-225F


I know there is a thread about creating ducting for guys with FMIC. Anyone on here have coolant temp problems by having the huge SSAC FMIC? It sits so close to the a/c rad that there really isn’t room to put some ducting in. And I dont really want to take it all off again.

Some things I might do
New thermostat-going with a 180 instead of the 190 (if it’s worth it)
New radiator-do those ebay ones work any better?
Hood vent
custom ducting

I custom made a ram air intake and that helped lower my air temp by 8 degrees.

Click to expand...

Last season, I had temp problems with a 3.5" thick PTE FMIC. . . There is another thread on dsmlink forums. . . I'll just copy/paste:

"Last summer on my old motor, I would EASILY start to run warm by just cruising around town after I put a 3.5" thick FMIC on and definitely ran hot at the track. So while building a new motor over the winter, I addressed the overheating situation. With the new setup, the temps seem to be under control nicely and I consistently run ~ 183F cruising the town / highways.

1) Switched from 50/50 mix (water/Antifreeze) to 70/30 mix
2) Installed a 1.3BAR radiator cap
3) Wrapped front waterpipe and water feed lines to turbo with heat reflective shielding from summit
4) Sealed Koyo radiator against A/C core with water pipe insulator from Lowes
5) Created ducting to direct air up into A/C core after passing through FMIC
"
Reference the pix in some of my previous posts to get an idea of what was done.

I am quite satisfied with the result. Even as the temps creep higher and higher outside, I have yet to get much above 200F, and I have been going to AutoX events the past few weekends (not much airflow to the radiator). But with everything I've done, soon as the fans kick on, the temps drop rather quickly back down to the 183-190F range.

I will still invest in a vented CF hood, and may even re-design the ducting I have done, but overall I'm pleased with this initial trial.

As for getting a 180* thermostat, it will only delay your overheating problems. You cooling system has a maximum capacity for how much heat it can dissipate. Starting to dissipate it sooner wont affect your overall heat capacity.

Cheapest/easiest things to try:
-Flush the cooling system
-Use a lower concentration of anti-freeze and water (more water)
-Duct work, duct work, duct work
-Seal the A/C core against the radiator with foam

You can also upgrade to a thicker (more coolant capacity) aluminum radiator, but those usually aren't "cheap"

Good luck!

I guess I'll be the one who disagrees and gets flamed. To me, this looks like you're just going to be forcing the already hot air that's gone through the intercooler to have to pass through the radiator. You've closed off access from air from anywhere else (unless you make that lip on the bottom) which would be cooler than the air that's passed through the IC. I'm not sure that this is the best solution, unless the lip is used. Then again, at the velocity that the air is moving, it may not get hot enough from the intercooler to matter.

Dream On said:

I guess I'll be the one who disagrees and gets flamed. To me, this looks like you're just going to be forcing the already hot air that's gone through the intercooler to have to pass through the radiator. You've closed off access from air from anywhere else (unless you make that lip on the bottom) which would be cooler than the air that's passed through the IC. I'm not sure that this is the best solution, unless the lip is used. Then again, at the velocity that the air is moving, it may not get hot enough from the intercooler to matter.

Click to expand...

No flaming . . . ideas are welcome . . . You're definitely going to be using the warmer than ambient air that's going through the intercooler, but there is also a decent amount that flows up over the top of the intercooler and makes it to the condenser core / radiator.

The main idea behind the duct work I've done (two side panels + lower lip) is to do a couple things.

1) The lower lip directs the air from the IC up into radiator. Without it, the air passing through the IC would hit the radiator support like a brick wall and create a TON of turbulence. Then (following the path of least resistance), a good portion of the air would escape and flow out underneath the car -- useless for the radiator.

2) The upright portions of the ducting act as channels to force the air through the radiator. Without them, precious air is lost around the sides of the radiator (again, through path of least resistance). This is also essentially what the foam is for- to seal off any escape paths between the a/c core and radiator. . . so it is all forced through the radiator.

One thing i thought about designing up was a top piece for this ducting, but decided against it for a couple of reasons, the more important one being if I was still having cooling issues, I was going to open up a hole in the fascia to let in fresh ambient air directly to the a/c core / radiator . . . but haven't needed to do that just yet. We'll see as the days get hotter.

increasing the size of my radiator inlet helped my airflow problems quite a bit and it still looks acceptable to me. I removed my A/C condensor with the FMIC install, so our setups differ slightly (I only use the main fan also), but I can now make back to back 1st-
4th gear pulls and I would feel confident in pushing it onto 5th now that I can make more than 2 1/4 mile passes without the needle starting to climb....


Before:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e237/kpgsx/DSC04640.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e237/kpgsx/DSC04947.jpg


After:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e237/kpgsx/DSC04953.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e237/kpgsx/DSC04952.jpg