I just added some new parts to my car such as a Tial 38mm wstegate--Aeromotive FPR (set perfect with vac line off--Sbr cast manifold-- Evo 3 turbo. I had a S16g befor and was tuned for it at 21 PSI on pump ran a 11.8 to 12.3 AFR. I just got a logger and I really dont know what im looking at here I have read many threads on them but ever car is diffrent and everone has a diffrent opionion. 2 boost leaks but they are small as can be at the injector seals and idle adjustment screw holds 24 pounds and slowly leaks off I mean slowly. Car seems to lag till I get around 5500 rpms and really takes off.

Car mods are in profile

AFC2 Settings are 20% low and 60% hi

RPM LO HI

1000 -9 -8
1600 -8 -3
2200 -10 -3
2800 -13 -4
3400 -13 -5
4000 -13 +1
4600 -14 -5
5200 -15 -3
5800 -14 -3
6400 -14 -3
7000 -19 -4
7600 -20 -10 Log is at 17 pounds

(First log )

R P M time 02s
3277 19 .97
3414 11 .97
3578 7 1.00 o2s stay the same till I let off the throttle
3773 8
4003 6
4167 7
4367 7
4546 8
4718 8
4875 9
5066 10
5230 10
5425 11
5593 12
5785 12
5984 14
6082 14
6265 14
6453 14
6632 14
6781 13

2ND log was the same I know im rich but I dont have a wideband and dont want to guess. Timeing looks ok from 5984 to 6632 it the rest im worried about and I think I can get a extra 2 deg up top. Any help on this or any suggestions on things I should try or do would be great.
Thanks in advance
AJ

Generally 1.0 o2's mean Pig Rich.

I would try turning the boost down a few psi and leaning it out some and go from there.

Should I lean it out just where the timing is low and how much fuel should I take out at first. I tryed to lower the boost on my Profec b2 and I cant seem to get it to go down at all. Settings are at zero and the wastegate is a 1.0 bar I would think no more than 15 pounds but I keep getting 17.

Couple questions about the logger. Can I log high fuel trims during wot and would it be worth a look at. Also the throttle HI LO postion should I put it to 30%lo and 65%high or does 20 80 shound ok.
Thanks for reply any other thoughts or tips.

I went for two more pulls and took out 3 percent heres the log

rpms 02 time
2996 .95 18
3140 .95 12
3296 .97 9
3468 .97 8
3636 .97 9
3847 1.0 8
4011 1.0 7
4187 1.0 8
4363 1.0 8
4527 1.0 8
4671 1.0 9
4882 1.0 10
5093 1.0 10
5210 1.0 9
5414 1.0 10
5617 1.0 11
5750 1.0 12
6000 1.0 13
6140 1.0 12
6269 1.0 12
6492 1.0 12 shut down backfire or fuel cut guessing fuel cut

2nd log I added 3 percent back

3199 .93 21
3234 .93 17
3339 .95 12
3472 .97 8
3585 .97 8
3742 .97 8
3894 .97 8
4062 .97 7
4207 .97 8
4397 .97 8
4566 .97 9
4730 1.0 9
4925 .97 10
5128 1.0 10
5316 1.0 10
5429 1.0 11
5613 1.0 13
6285 1.0 13

This is confusing it runs better than if I take fuel out. I was reading other peoples logs with a evo 3 and there afc settings are around -12 and -10 I dont know if I should try it and lean it out that much. The other thing is that I have a 6-bolt motor and I used the POT MOD to get rid of the random missfire I was wandering if this is doing anything for tuning of my car. I am going to turn the knob back till I get the missfire and slowly turn it back up till it goes away I am wandering if it turned up with all the vibrations the last year. 3rd gear pull is slow to me but if I start in 2nd and wot and shift into 3rd if hauls and I get better timeing numbers in 3rd than I do on a single pull in third.

Hope I can get this figured out. I am going to order a AEM UEGO widband and use it as well to tune I dont like to guess off numbers of a log its a little scary to thnk of the bad things that could come.

AJ

Your settings seem way rich for evo III and 550's! Try setting you Hi settings to -14 and then decide if you are rich or lean, then tune from there. The top of the rpm range will likely be a little richer.
When tuning with a logger you cannot rely on narrowband 02's. You use them as a guideline and watch for a drastic change. When you get your wideband it will help alot as you will be able to see your a/f ratios and tune for timing also. For now you are tuning for timing. Ideally you want your timing to dip to 6-8 degree's as full boost hits, then it should climp a steady line WITH NO DIPS until redline!

1 degree of timing retard is 10 counts of knock.

For reference, the 2G ECU holds timing at 7 counts and retards 1 degree of timing for every 3 degrees over that (i.e. 10,13,16, etc)

This will also assume you have did all of your maint. ( including a boost leak test ) Also when you log only log rpms, timing, and o2! Go WOT in 3rd at 2500rpms and hold it until redline. This will give you more frames and allow us to better help you!

Here is a tuning guide that you can use... http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58403

Carl

Got the wideband installed and took the car out lastnight. Warm up\idle and cruise bounced back and forth around 14.3 and 15.8. When I went WOT it got 10.0 I took 4 percent out and still 10.0. Do you think I was getting rich knock and that is why my timing is so low. Im going to try and turn all the hi settings to 10% and see how the loggger and AFR are let you know today hopefully I can get her running better.

I did have some weird effects lastnight when I did the first pull I bucked like I was talking about before and the second run were I took out 4% I bucked 2 to 3 times. I think it is fuel cut but I could be wrong I just bought some FIC 660's so I will put those in after I find how to tune the 550's.

alright I made a few pulls took everthing down to -13% on the afc still 10.0 on the wideband at 18psi.

rpm 02 time
3148 .95 14
3335 .97 11
3527 1.00 8
3757 .97 4
3988 .97 5
4179 .97 5
4402 .97 5
4613 1.00 6
4828 1.00 7
5035 1.00 7
5269 1.00 8
5539 1.00 8
5664 1.00 9
5894 1.00 9
6128 .97 8
6269 .97 8
6476 .97 8
6621 .97 6

2nd run

3804 .98 19
3878 .95 11
3996 1.00 6
4183 .97 7
4335 .97 6
4574 .97 7
4722 .97 7
4933 .97 8
5214 .97 9
5347 .97 9
5542 .97 10
5824 .97 10
6019 1.00 11
6140 1.00 11
6335 .97 11
6550 .97 10
6746 .97 11


I had better timing the last logs when I left the fuel were it was man I am like this guyWTF
Help is what I need hopefully you guys can help me out. The backfire or fuelcut that was there is gone though. Also my car idles at 15.2 to 15.8 now and I havent changed the low settings. (Nevermind fixed it I did mess with it oops)

Well here is another log but this time I went from 2nd to 3rd and recorded the whole thing. Still reading 10.0 and im a little afraid to lower the settings past -13% seem's a little low but if I get a wiseman to tell me diffrent I might try it. Stll not getting that buck though which is a good thing.

rpm time
3257 26
3406 21
3656 16
3898 11
4179 10
4484 12
4777 11
5199 11
5511 12
5773 14
6007 14
6351 14
6589 15 <--- highest timing Ive had in 2nd
6816 15
7093 15
7101 38 shift to 3rd
6234 37
5391 35
4960 20
4796 12
4929 11
5019 11
5171 12
5359 11
5449 12
5585 13
5710 14
5863 12
5929 14
6082 14
6183 14
6296 14
6394 14
6523 14
6578 14
6707 14
6847 14
6898 15
7003 15 <----highest Ive had in 3rd
7109 28 shut down

Timeing looks the best I have had all together except the dip in 3rd around 5863 rpms everthing else climbs but 3rd gear top end hold's till I get to 6898rpms and it jump's one degree. I dont understand why I get such good timeing in 3rd after shifting from 2nd but from a pull in 3rd I get nothing higher than 11 degree's. One last thing is .97 still rich on the narrow band. I have also been wandering if my FPR is not draining the fuel fast enough. When I installed it I never rerouted the return line like some say to do but I did add the 6an lines from the filter to the rail and rail to the FPR. Only other thing I can think of is my injectors are fried. Any ideas on this. Thanks again for reading all these post and of course your help.
AJ

Base settings for 550's in a 2g are -18%. Those settings line you up with the factory fuel map, which is set at a pig rich 9.5:1. So you can see, that at -13% you are much richer than 9.5:1.

Drop everything down to -18% and start there. Please log rpm, timing, O2 and airflow making a 3rd gear pull from 2.5k to redline. Just be safe when making the pull

spyderturbo007 said:

Base settings for 550's in a 2g are -18%. Those settings line you up with the factory fuel map, which is set at a pig rich 9.5:1. So you can see, that at -13% you are much richer than 9.5:1.

Drop everything down to -18% and start there. Please log rpm, timing, O2 and airflow making a 3rd gear pull from 2.5k to redline. Just be safe when making the pull

Click to expand...

If I log rpm\timing\airflow\o2 I will not get as many points on the log. I bought a Palm
m125 and downloaded Tunerstein on it and that's all I have. Next log I will log rpm\airflow and timing and skip the 02's cause I have the wideband and lower the settings down to -16% and see what that gives me. It's raining today so I will try tommorow. Any thoughts on why I have better timing in 3rd if I start in 2nd?

I have been thinking about the 6-bolt swap I did in the car and thinking about the bandaid fix I did to get rid of the random misfire. I did the POT MOD which mess's with the baro sensor. Also knowing that once I add the 660 injectors that I will have to pull so much air out on the AFC I should just get a KeyDiver chip. My ecu is socketed already and I can take the bandaid fix off once I get the chip which should help me in my tuning cause the car will be in complet stock working order. I dont really want DSM link as I dont think I will go that far into it and not something I want to mess with. I just cant help to wander if doing that mod is what is giving me problem's.

It was raining today again so hopefully tomorrow will yeild better results.

Flybiyou said:

I have been thinking about the 6-bolt swap I did in the car and thinking about the bandaid fix I did to get rid of the random misfire. I did the POT MOD which mess's with the baro sensor. Also knowing that once I add the 660 injectors that I will have to pull so much air out on the AFC I should just get a KeyDiver chip. My ecu is socketed already and I can take the bandaid fix off once I get the chip which should help me in my tuning cause the car will be in complet stock working order. I dont really want DSM link as I dont think I will go that far into it and not something I want to mess with. I just cant help to wander if doing that mod is what is giving me problem's.

It was raining today again so hopefully tomorrow will yeild better results.

Click to expand...

A chip to take care of your misfire and to compensate for the 660's would be an EXCELLENT idea. Actually, now that I think of it, you should sell your EPROM to me and tune the 660's with the SAFC.

No, seriously, a chip would save you a lot of tuning time. Seeing as how piggyback tuning sucks.

spyderturbo007 said:

Base settings for 550's in a 2g are -18%. Those settings line you up with the factory fuel map, which is set at a pig rich 9.5:1. So you can see, that at -13% you are much richer than 9.5:1.

Drop everything down to -18% and start there. Please log rpm, timing, O2 and airflow making a 3rd gear pull from 2.5k to redline. Just be safe when making the pull

Click to expand...

spyderturbo, you clearly know what you are talking about when it comes to tuning, but I think I caught just a typo mistake that ya made in the above quote. For 2G equipped with 550's the baseline correction is -10% across the board, not -18%. And yes, it is still pig rich at -10%. If I'm completely wrong on that one I'm sorry and let me know, but I'm very sure that for 2G's it is -10%

Ben

spectr019 said:

spyderturbo, you clearly know what you are talking about when it comes to tuning, but I think I caught just a typo mistake that ya made in the above quote. For 2G equipped with 550's the baseline correction is -10% across the board, not -18%. And yes, it is still pig rich at -10%. If I'm completely wrong on that one I'm sorry and let me know, but I'm very sure that for 2G's it is -10%

Ben

Click to expand...

Nope. The baseline corrections come from this equation:

[1 - (stock injector size/new injector size)] * 100 = % correction

Both 1G's & 2G's have 450's for stock, so plugging in 550's for new injector size yields -18% correction. Most people just suggest you start out around -10-15% & work your way lean from there.

EDIT: You know, I just went back & re-read the tuning guide for my own edification & I see where you're getting -10% from: "Now, you want to use baseline corrections for fuel injectors. If you have 450's, leave both tables at zero. If you have 550's, put them around -10%. If you have 660's, usually around -18% would be a fine starting point." Probably should not have used "baseline" in that sentence as really what he's suggesting here is just a good, safe starting point from which you can start setting your fuel trims & then move on to WOT tuning. The baseline correction for a specific injector size is derived with the above equation.

okay well then I would have to shout out a big huge damnit because I've been tuning with using the baseline as -10%....guh. OKay well for my LO THR I have perfect fuel trims, 0 (+/- 6), and that is set at -10%. So should I leave that at -10% and change the HI THR to -18%? GAH I HATE GETTING THINGS WRONG!!!! But just to clerify then, I AM safe by tuning from my -10%, correct? Thanks for correcting me on that one, and sorry for saying I thought you were wrong spyder!!!

Ben

spectr019 said:

okay well then I would have to shout out a big huge damnit because I've been tuning with using the baseline as -10%....guh. OKay well for my LO THR I have perfect fuel trims, 0 (+/- 6), and that is set at -10%. So should I leave that at -10% and change the HI THR to -18%? GAH I HATE GETTING THINGS WRONG!!!! But just to clerify then, I AM safe by tuning from my -10%, correct? Thanks for correcting me on that one, and sorry for saying I thought you were wrong spyder!!!

Ben

Click to expand...

Should probably just take this to its own thread & continue it there. We've kind of hijacked the original poster's topic...

spectr019 said:

Thanks for correcting me on that one, and sorry for saying I thought you were wrong spyder!!!

Ben

Click to expand...

That's ok, I'll let you slide this time, but next time it's "No soup for you!".

Man this rain has been killing me but today it starting to dry up and the road might be dry enough by tonight for me to make a good pull or two without slipping the whole time. I was thinking some more on the DSM CHIP and im going to buy one this weekend but I would still like to figure out my logs and tuneing abillty with your help of course. I didnt even know about these untill I read some post and was like well dont I feel left out . Oh well better late than never and the best part about it is I can take that POT MOD off my car and not have to worry about the random misfire happening.

Look for my log tonight hopefully I can get this right.

AJ

Remember, you are going to need an EPROM ECU for the chip to be useable. You are looking at about $200+ for the ECU. Sometimes you can find them for cheaper, but that's normally what you can expect to pay.

spyderturbo007 said:

Remember, you are going to need an EPROM ECU for the chip to be useable. You are looking at about $200+ for the ECU. Sometimes you can find them for cheaper, but that's normally what you can expect to pay.

Click to expand...

I bought the whole thing ECU and Chip. I went out tonight but the logger wouldnt connect I think the cable is bad. I just bought one and haveing it overnighted. I did turn the settings down to -18% and still read 10.0 on the wideband.

The car pulled hard though if never had the steering wheel pull back and forth as hard in 3rd. That will be taken care of soon though with the Quaife and Shep tranny soon.

I will hopefully get the logger cable by monday and I wont get the Dsm Chip till the first week in november. If the log check's out good than im going to keep leaner her out till I I can at least hit 11.0 on the wideband as im sure ther is a little more power to be had with leaning it out.

Laters
AJ