If you keep it at actuator pressure and the turbo doesn't creep on you, you should be fine.
You don't list ANY mods in your profile, so I assume that you don't have any exhaust work done. If thats the case, then you have a good chance of not creeping.

BTW- do not use those "light show" gauges to determine your A/F ratio.

MiSFiTz said:

Ok heres the deal:

I wanna run a Evo3 B16g w/o messing w/ my stock fuel.

Im currently running a 14b at 19psi and im running pig rich according to the light show air/fuel gauge

Anyhow can this be done? if i run low boost?

I only have money for a turbo then about 3 months ill have money for the safc2 and 550 injectors or can i just put in the 450 injectors from the 1g and it should hold me over? i dunno what the stock fuel pump can do w/ the stock fpr

Clue me in please, btw i did search on this but i came up empty handed

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If you want to be more safe than sorry I would not even put the 16g on untill you have the proper fuel management. But if you must, do not run anything over 12 psi. I also have to agree with the "light show" comment. This is not even close to accurate.

FWIW, I'm setup at the moment with 10 psi until I get fuel and fuel management taken care off. I'm close, but not maxing out my IDC and not getting any knock with this. I've also got a bit of a creeping issue, but it's not all that bad for standard driving since I hardly even get close to WOT anyways. I was creeping to a point of knocking around 5000-5500 RPMs in third with WOT.

Sure 10 psi is less than the 15 I was running on my 14b before the o-ring in it started causing a boost leak, but overall it's still equating to ~ the same amount of air, so ~ the same amount of power, if not slightly more (or so it seems).

You should really be logging things yourself thought to fit your particular situation.

Yo, give us a list of your engine mods, including exhaust work. The light show is no help, since you have that we gotta assume you have other mods. You will need more fuel to make that thing run right. Many will desaree with this statement i believe. But for now, just turn the boost up to like 18lbs. Your car will try to run rich, the computer will see massive airflow, pound out all the fuel it can, and at high rpm, when it cant give you more fuel, you will hit fuel cut. A big bang, most likely, like a back fire. Big deal, your car is doing what it is supposed to. So for daily driving, turn the freaking boost up, dont be flooring it, revving out third and fourth gear or nothin, but it will perform pretty well on the stock fuel system. You ultimately will need a fuel pump, larger injectors, and an AFC. Dude, I have been where you are and have 60k on my 98 GSX, bought it brand new in 98. Did all this mysef, my engine is still tight. I actually have an AFC, Denso 510 injectors, and a denso 190lph intank pump, left from a previous setup. Mabey i can help you out with that stuff if you need it in the future.

gsxboost20g said:

Yo, give us a list of your engine mods, including exhaust work. The light show is no help, since you have that we gotta assume you have other mods. You will need more fuel to make that thing run right. Many will desaree with this statement i believe. But for now, just turn the boost up to like 18lbs. Your car will try to run rich, the computer will see massive airflow, pound out all the fuel it can, and at high rpm, when it cant give you more fuel, you will hit fuel cut. A big bang, most likely, like a back fire. Big deal, your car is doing what it is supposed to. So for daily driving, turn the freaking boost up, dont be flooring it, revving out third and fourth gear or nothin, but it will perform pretty well on the stock fuel system. You ultimately will need a fuel pump, larger injectors, and an AFC. Dude, I have been where you are and have 60k on my 98 GSX, bought it brand new in 98. Did all this mysef, my engine is still tight. I actually have an AFC, Denso 510 injectors, and a denso 190lph intank pump, left from a previous setup. Mabey i can help you out with that stuff if you need it in the future.

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Please tell me you are joking. WTF Big deal? Are you serious? Wow... I'm almost speechless. DO NOT turn your boost up that high. You will run lean and hit fuel cut. Running lean means you will run hot. Running hot could lead to bye bye motor. Be intelligent and run nothing more than 12 psi.

Mods are as follows : Apex N1 Downpipe 2.5" where it bolts up then to 3", 3" system all the way back also Apex N1, Upper icp's and lower icp's FMIC, bpr7es plugs gaped at .28, magnacore wires 8.5 i think, balance shaft elem kit, hks rfl bov (i know i need to get it off but i like it),

im also right now running the 14b and it backfires sometimes when i shift this being rich
(no i dont have a boost leak that i know of but i havent went and got the tester made yet from the home depo)

I have bigger injectors i can put it dunno the size or anything about them but they would make my car run like piss on the 14b so i put my stockers back in..

The bigger injectors will make your car run pretty bad with no type of fuel management. The ECU is pretty dumb when it comes down to it. It just does what it was programed to do. It doesn't know you switched injectors and are now dumping more fuel. You will need at the very minimum a piggy back system such as thr SAFC to "teach" the new fuel trims. So do you not have any clue what type of injectors they are? This would help in the decision of the management system. For an Evo III 650's would be best.

No clue there not market or anything, i thought they where stock but stockers have one whole in the bottom these have 2 in the bottom, any clues?


Ok, if i buy the evo3 and set it at say 10-12 lbs i wont have to modify my fuel unless it starts being dumb hitting fuel cut at lower rpms and such? this what im getting?

The setup im buying is a ported 2g mani, and the evo 3 ported

Not too sure. Do you any pics of them? I might be able to tell from those.

Yes if you set your boost low, like I said previously, you will be able to get away with it. Don't go beating on it. Always keep in mind it is only half done untill you get your injectors, pump and fuel computer. So just keep that in mind, take it easy, and you will be fine until you get your complete setup.

You can safely run 14psi on stock fuel and 15psi with a rewire on your fuel pump without getting knock. 10-12 is a bit low. But 18 it way to high.

gsxboost20g said:

Yo, give us a list of your engine mods, including exhaust work. The light show is no help, since you have that we gotta assume you have other mods. You will need more fuel to make that thing run right. Many will desaree with this statement i believe. But for now, just turn the boost up to like 18lbs. Your car will try to run rich, the computer will see massive airflow, pound out all the fuel it can, and at high rpm, when it cant give you more fuel, you will hit fuel cut. A big bang, most likely, like a back fire. Big deal, your car is doing what it is supposed to. So for daily driving, turn the freaking boost up, dont be flooring it, revving out third and fourth gear or nothin, but it will perform pretty well on the stock fuel system. You ultimately will need a fuel pump, larger injectors, and an AFC. Dude, I have been where you are and have 60k on my 98 GSX, bought it brand new in 98. Did all this mysef, my engine is still tight. I actually have an AFC, Denso 510 injectors, and a denso 190lph intank pump, left from a previous setup. Mabey i can help you out with that stuff if you need it in the future.

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HAHAHAHAHA. NO!

OSXer said:

FWIW, I'm setup at the moment with 10 psi until I get fuel and fuel management taken care off. I'm close, but not maxing out my IDC and not getting any knock with this. I've also got a bit of a creeping issue, but it's not all that bad for standard driving since I hardly even get close to WOT anyways. I was creeping to a point of knocking around 5000-5500 RPMs in third with WOT.

Sure 10 psi is less than the 15 I was running on my 14b before the o-ring in it started causing a boost leak, but overall it's still equating to ~ the same amount of air, so ~ the same amount of power, if not slightly more (or so it seems).

You should really be logging things yourself thought to fit your particular situation.

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What are you creeping to? If your maxing you injectors out at 10 psi on stock cams intake mani bore and stroke then you got a problem or your creap is more than small creep issue. You're probably creaping to 15 psi. In which case, 10 psi from your evo3 is not 10 psi. In fact, 10psi on a evo3 and a stock long block is slightly less efficient (by only a couple percent) than a stock 14b at 15 psi. The evo3 doesn't start getting more efficient until after 16 psi or so depending on flow mods (intake mani, cams, bore/stroke, etc.)

95blackGsTurbo said:

You can safely run 14psi on stock fuel and 15psi with a rewire on your fuel pump without getting knock. 10-12 is a bit low. But 18 it way to high.

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This is true. "For the most part". But, listen to Jon. Stick to lower, closer to stock boost until you at least get a logger to know what's going on under the hood. "For the most part" means that it's not recommended to run anything over stock boost without a logger to see injector dutycycles and more importantly knock. But if you have a logger and a good running engine with properly functioning sensors then go as high as you can without knock. You have the turbo to do it, so why not. Do you have a logger?

I would just use the money you have buy the fuel management stuff,then save and buy the turbo.If your 14b is still good then running the e16g without fuel mods your car will probably feel slower.

fwdeclipse said:

I would just use the money you have buy the fuel management stuff,then save and buy the turbo.If your 14b is still good then running the e16g without fuel mods your car will probably feel slower.

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Well, his car will feel slower if he gets knock becaue he's outflowing his fuel system. he will not feel slower at stock boost or 14 psi, which is the maximum recommended for stock fuel system. He will likely outflow his stock fuel system over 14psi, regardless of what turbo he runs. Unless his engine demands more flow (bigger cams, displacement, intake mani, etc) then having an evo3 will give bearly any more flow at any psi. ans slightly less closer if he runs closer to stock (because of efficiency based on the compressor map).

Well my 14b the center section is burning out and im starting to lose some oil there..

So needless to say its getting shaft play and all that fun stuff...

I rewire my fuel pump and run the Ev0 3 B16g at 12-14 psi until i get a logger and fuel

This what im getting?

Do the proper porting to prevent boost creep and set your boost to 14 psi max, with a stock rewired fuel pump. I was fine with that setup until I installed my upgraded fuel system. Getting a logger first would be a good idea so you know exactly whats going on and then you will be able to know for sure exactly how much boost you can run without knocking as every car will be slightly different. I ran up to 15 psi but also saw up to 107% injector duty cycle at that boost, but my car was still safe as I was running Dsmlink. The reason why the car still wasn't knocking at 107% duty cycle is because of the very rich factory wot air/fuel ratio. From the factory your around 9.5/1 on wot.

JDNSBR said:

Please tell me you are joking. WTF Big deal? Are you serious? Wow... I'm almost speechless. DO NOT turn your boost up that high. You will run lean and hit fuel cut. Running lean means you will run hot. Running hot could lead to bye bye motor. Be intelligent and run nothing more than 12 psi.

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Yeah, im serious. I already went over the cautionary part of this reply. I answered the inquiry with proven facts. He asked how he could do it without upgrading the fuel system. Running 12psi on an Evo 3 is like taking 2 steps back from the 14b at 19psi. I am sorry, but go ahead and correct me if you please, but blowing an engine with a completely stock fuel system simply from running high boost is not likely at all. Given a 4th gear pull, hitting fuel cut, then again, and again, and again might f it up. If your doing that you shouldnt be driving anything. Once again FUEL CUT is when the computer sees 100% duty cycle on the inectors, and instantly shuts them down. The computer system knows nothing of EGT or A/F. So therefore no such lean condition could exist. At SBR you should know this FACT, and not try to clown on members just because their login shows them to be a newbie. DSMs with the stock fuel system will always run nice and rich once they see huge airflow. With this additional FACT he could use an AFC to lean out the mix early in the rpm range saving the computers laggy response to the increased air flow and lowering the overall duty cycle at that given rpm. This would allow the injectors to hit a 100% duty later in the rpm range. Once again simply answering the doods' question. Dyno proven FACTS. So to stay with the factory fuel system you should just keep the 14b at 19psi, if your not hitting fuel cut already!!!! You will be displeased with the performance of an Evo3 with 12lbs, laggier, less time in rpm range making power. Your car will be slower at the track and on the street. Another FACT. Linear V.S. peak HP. Look that one up.

gsxboost20g said:

Yeah, im serious. I already went over the cautionary part of this reply. I answered the inquiry with proven facts. He asked how he could do it without upgrading the fuel system. Running 12psi on an Evo 3 is like taking 2 steps back from the 14b at 19psi. I am sorry, but go ahead and correct me if you please, but blowing an engine with a completely stock fuel system simply from running high boost is not likely at all. Given a 4th gear pull, hitting fuel cut, then again, and again, and again might f it up. If your doing that you shouldnt be driving anything. Once again FUEL CUT is when the computer sees 100% duty cycle on the inectors, and instantly shuts them down. The computer system knows nothing of EGT or A/F. So therefore no such lean condition could exist. At SBR you should know this FACT, and not try to clown on members just because their login shows them to be a newbie. DSMs with the stock fuel system will always run nice and rich once they see huge airflow. With this additional FACT he could use an AFC to lean out the mix early in the rpm range saving the computers laggy response to the increased air flow and lowering the overall duty cycle at that given rpm. This would allow the injectors to hit a 100% duty later in the rpm range. Once again simply answering the doods' question. Dyno proven FACTS. So to stay with the factory fuel system you should just keep the 14b at 19psi, if your not hitting fuel cut already!!!! You will be displeased with the performance of an Evo3 with 12lbs, laggier, less time in rpm range making power. Your car will be slower at the track and on the street. Another FACT. Linear V.S. peak HP. Look that one up.

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Where did you learn that fuel cut happens when the injectors hit 100% duty cycle? From what I've heard fuel cut has nothing to do with injector duty cycle, it has to do with airflow, when the MAS see's too much you hit fuel cut. As I just posted above before I upgraded my fuel system I saw 107% duty cycle with my evoIII set at 15 psi and I've never once hit fuel cut?

gsxboost20g said:

Yeah, im serious. I already went over the cautionary part of this reply. I answered the inquiry with proven facts. He asked how he could do it without upgrading the fuel system.

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Yes he will hit fuel cut everytime he ventures into 3000-4000rpm range at WOT. What? Is this fun? Does this make more power? The ecu cuts the fuel before he gets to a horsepower level (AIRFLOW level) where it merits the boost.WTF

gsxboost20g said:

Running 12psi on an Evo 3 is like taking 2 steps back from the 14b at 19psi. I am sorry, but go ahead and correct me if you please, but blowing an engine with a completely stock fuel system simply from running high boost is not likely at all.

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I did. It is possible and most probable. After one pull to 4500 rpms with 20 psi on stock fuel.

gsxboost20g said:

Given a 4th gear pull, hitting fuel cut, then again, and again, and again might f it up. If your doing that you shouldnt be driving anything. Once again FUEL CUT is when the computer sees 100% duty cycle on the inectors, and instantly shuts them down. The computer system knows nothing of EGT or A/F. So therefore no such lean condition could exist. At SBR you should know this FACT, and not try to clown on members just because their login shows them to be a newbie.

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You ARE a clown. What is the benefit of turning the boost up to the point that you'll hit fuel cut at WOT or part throttle. You just said that the injectors are shut down when the ecu senses that the airflow is high enough to need 100%+ injector duty. 450s will only flow but so much fuel. Why run boost and consequently airflow that will give you more horsepower than what the injectors can flow. You won't get that exta horsepower. The injectors are being cut off. You know FUEL CUT. If you talk like a noob and have noob on your profile what is someone to think?

gsxboost20g said:

DSMs with the stock fuel system will always run nice and rich once they see huge airflow. With this additional FACT he could use an AFC to lean out the mix early in the rpm range saving the computers laggy response to the increased air flow and lowering the overall duty cycle at that given rpm. This would allow the injectors to hit a 100% duty later in the rpm range. Once again simply answering the doods' question. Dyno proven FACTS. So to stay with the factory fuel system you should just keep the 14b at 19psi, if your not hitting fuel cut already!!!! You will be displeased with the performance of an Evo3 with 12lbs, laggier, less time in rpm range making power. Your car will be slower at the track and on the street. Another FACT. Linear V.S. peak HP. Look that one up.

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Of course a 14B at 18 psi is going to net more power than an evo3 at 12! But neither will generate more power than before the point he hits fuel cut. Just stop! Stop telling him that he should run his boost up to 18 psi. Stop spouting this waste out. How do you know he's not running 12.5:1 on pump gas? No one should run that kind of boost with the stock fuel system. I've proven it myself. A cold night and your either hitting fuel cut or hitting your fist on the dash for blowing you engine!

You're noobish, or a better word, childish for coming on here and quoting dyno reports and suggesting incompetancy to Jon as SBR. Come back when you have worked at a dyno shop for as long as he has.

Get real. Fuel cut means that there's no reason to push your boost past the point just before it. As your ecu is preventing you from flowing anymore air (make any more power) than just before you hit fuel cut.

Based on your remarks, you're still a newbie or a baby in the dsm world. If I still shit my pants at 45, I'd still be a baby. . .No matter how many years i've sat in my own waste.

daren_p said:

Where did you learn that fuel cut happens when the injectors hit 100% duty cycle? From what I've heard fuel cut has nothing to do with injector duty cycle, it has to do with airflow, when the MAS see's too much you hit fuel cut. As I just posted above before I upgraded my fuel system I saw 107% duty cycle with my evoIII set at 15 psi and I've never once hit fuel cut?

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You're correct somewhat. It is based on airflow. When the ecu sees an airflow signal where it calculates 100% idc will be needed to maintain the proper A/f ratio on the fuel map, then it cuts the fuel injectors off. 200% idc is a telltale sign that fuel cut has occured or is eminent.

gsxboost20g said:

Yeah, im serious. I already went over the cautionary part of this reply. I answered the inquiry with proven facts. He asked how he could do it without upgrading the fuel system. Running 12psi on an Evo 3 is like taking 2 steps back from the 14b at 19psi. I am sorry, but go ahead and correct me if you please, but blowing an engine with a completely stock fuel system simply from running high boost is not likely at all. Given a 4th gear pull, hitting fuel cut, then again, and again, and again might f it up. If your doing that you shouldnt be driving anything. Once again FUEL CUT is when the computer sees 100% duty cycle on the inectors, and instantly shuts them down. The computer system knows nothing of EGT or A/F. So therefore no such lean condition could exist. At SBR you should know this FACT, and not try to clown on members just because their login shows them to be a newbie. DSMs with the stock fuel system will always run nice and rich once they see huge airflow. With this additional FACT he could use an AFC to lean out the mix early in the rpm range saving the computers laggy response to the increased air flow and lowering the overall duty cycle at that given rpm. This would allow the injectors to hit a 100% duty later in the rpm range. Once again simply answering the doods' question. Dyno proven FACTS. So to stay with the factory fuel system you should just keep the 14b at 19psi, if your not hitting fuel cut already!!!! You will be displeased with the performance of an Evo3 with 12lbs, laggier, less time in rpm range making power. Your car will be slower at the track and on the street. Another FACT. Linear V.S. peak HP. Look that one up.

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Fact number 1 for your incompentence: Fuel cut is caused by the mass air flow sensor reading too much air. NOT by the ECU reading 100% injector duty cycle. The basis of this is simple. Fuel cut is occurs when the air that is read by the mass air sensor exceeds a trigger value in the ECU. When this occurs the ECU stops sending a signal to the injectors. Hence, ending the firing of the injectors


Fact number 2 for your incompentece: When you hit fuel cut... it causes you to run lean. Let's think about this...f..u..e..l......c..u...t. What does this mean? Are you ready for this one? You are running out of fuel! What does running lean mean? You are running out of fuel! So you saying no lean condition could exist on stock fuel system for a DSM is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

So you can stick to your dyno proven facts. Make sure you have your bucket and shovel ready when your grenade the motor.

FUEL CUT IS NOT A SAFETY NET!

dsm-onster said:

What are you creeping to? If your maxing you injectors out at 10 psi on stock cams intake mani bore and stroke then you got a problem or your creap is more than small creep issue. You're probably creaping to 15 psi.

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Yeah, I've since run a additional runs and am creeping to around 15-16 psi in the upper RPM range. I'm still leaving things at ~10 for the moment to be safe rather than sorry. I wasn't expecting huge gains until I get the supporting mods taken care of, I rushed to doing this sooner because my old 14b was having bad boost leak issues between the the inducer and compressor. If I do creep, I'm not hitting 15 psi until ~6000-6500 RPM, at which point IDC is ~100% or more. Before 5500 timing, IDC, ect looks good, so it works for my typical driving around town for the mean time.

JDNSBR said:

Fact number 2 for your incompentece: When you hit fuel cut...you are running lean.![/U][/B]

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Fuel cut can occure if you're running very rich as well.