First off... I'm new to DSM's.
I come from a LS1 background. I just bought a 92 AWD Talon Tsi for my new car project.

My goal is to make 400awhp, (350-minimum) and pass emissions (tail pipe sniffer test). ALSO- I want to keep a "stock appearance". Except for the FMIC, I'll stick with Mistu parts to keep a stock look ......Its gonna be a fun little sleeper.

For 3 weeks I've been doing research, and planning. Besides ported heads... its basically a bolt-on motor. I hope to keep the cams stock to pass emissions. If I can still pass with mild cams... I'll add them. I've almost got all the basics planned. Now I'd like to hear what you guys think about my list so far.


"Air"
Custom "Cold-Air" Intake pipe
FMIC kit
Blow off Valve

"Turbo"
Mitsu. EVO III 16G Turbo
w/ Turbine Inlet & Outlet Porting, & 34mm internal gate

"Exhaust"
Mitsu. EVO III Exh. Manifold, w/ Stage 2 Manifold Porting
Mistu. EVO III O2 Housing, w/ O2 Porting
3" inch Down pipe
Race Cat Converter
Custom 3" Cat-Back
Dyna Tech Splitflow Muffler

"Engine"
Fresh 2.0L Rebuilt Motor

"Valve train"
Street/Strip heads
w/ Titanium Springs & Retainers

"Fuel"
Walbro 255 lph Fuel Pump
Areomotove Fuel Pressure Reg.
Fuel Lines, Filter & Fittings
Fuel injectors

"Engine Management"
DSM Link
Laptop <Got it)
3" GM MAF
MAF-T. (For 3" GM MAF)
Manual Boost Controller
Greddy Electric Boost Gauge
Greddy Fuel Pressure Gauge
Greddy Exhaust Temp Gauge

"Transmission"
Tranny Rebuild
SBR 3500 Clutch Kit
Short Shifter

"Suspension"
Eibach Pro kit Springs
KYB AGX Adjustable struts
Upgraded Brakes

The whole idea in going with a EVO III 16G is to keep the smallest Turbo that will give me 400awhp.... and still spool fast to keep lag down. I'll go with a Bastard 20G if I have to.

>>>>>>Let me know what you think ...Am I dreaming, or can it be done?
Thanks!!

Okay before everybody jumps in with 50trim this, and 50trim is the mAd tyte L33T ROxors!!!!!11111 stuff, let me just say, that I personally think you will need a bigger turbo, but the EvoIII is going to get the job done with a 350hp goal and then some with race gas. I did not see cams on your list, you will need those, and I would avoid the 34mm flapper for high boost (22+). It does not seem to hold to redline.

I think a TDO6H-20G with an external gate would be a better choice.

EDIT: Whoops, I see your concerns about emissions with cams.

400 AWHP can be done quite easily with bolt-ons. I don't know about the sniffer because i live in Louisiana where people drive tractors around. The EVO III 16g is a great turbo for around 270-320 hp i think. I think you might want the b a s t a r d 20g to make a good 400 hp.

It seems like you have a good grasp on what you will need. What I will say is that you will need a bigger turbo to do it. Now ten people will come in and say that Slowboy made 400 WHP on a 16G, but you arent Slowboy and, no offence but I doubt that number will be repated. You can easyy go with a 20G and make the power you want or you can stepup to a 50 trim and make that power on pump gas.

There was a thread a bit ago about a guy that had a 50 trim and supporting mods and still passed emmisions in CA even.

yah it's gonna be real hard trying to attain 400whp on the Evo316g. you should consider the sleeper 16g from forced performance if you're looking for a stock looking turbo. best of luck with your decisions.

Good setup IMO. Fuel pump may be a bit big though if you are looking to pass the sniffer. Go with a 190 if you are that concerned, it will work with a Evo 16g. And keep the head porting mild. According to both Road Race and MachV you cant pass smog with a 255.

FFWD connection has a set of reground (scaaary-i hate regrinds, but I'll at least throw it out there) cams they say will pass emmissions.

If I could do my sleeper over again, I'd do my exhaust different. Id go with a 3inch d/p into an electronic cutout before the stock cat, and stock cat back. I'd even go as far as putting some badly installed neons under the drivers and passenger side door (would never be turned on though), so when the cops and other raceres asked "whats that switch for" you could just point to the botched neon job.

I know you can make a solid 350-370whp on an evo 16g with cams and race gas...but as for 400whp..that might be pushing it. Buschur racing made 380whp and 341 ft/lbs on their evo 16g with a peak boost of 24psi. However, this was with race gas and not cat...you can check the rest of their modifications here http://buschurracing.com/EVO_Stage4.html

You will need a bigger turbo than an EVO316G for 400 whp. If money is no object there are fairly good spooling turbos that will give you that much. Also, 400 whp will be pushing a non forged bottom end.

Don't forget fuel injectors and a wideband.

Some dyno time would be good too.

Plumb some nitrous under the intake for an extra kick.

Coating a FMIC with black body emmiter is pretty stealthy.

Welcome to DSMs, remember you only have 1 head now.


Seth

My Ultimate goal if for a real street drivin 400awhp car. ""Pump Gas Only""

I'm not intrested in "seeing" how much power I can make with race gas, or alcohol injection. I want real street power. Street power that will run good #'s at the track

Yeah.... I saw SBR's 400whp Dyno chart for the EvoIII 16G, and fell for it.
I'll go with the Bastard 20G...... but I dont want a big turbo that going to tell everyone I've got power. I want it to be a sleeper

"Warning" DSM Newby question!
-boostedinaz- Why cant you make 400hp with a 20G & pump gas.... But you can make 400hp with a 50trim and pump gas?
Is it because the little turbo has to spin too fast to make the psi ...((so it heats up intake temprature too much or what?))

I didnt add cams to the list because, I dont know if I can pass a sniffer test with them. I would like to add cams if I can.... I'll have to see where I'm at without them first... Or if I hear of others passing a "tail pipe sniffer test" then I might go ahead and try some mild cams.

Thanks for the input guys

Yeah I'm a fan of the dyno. I like to dyno after every mod if I can... to see what each part gives me.

Money is an object here....
Beleive it or not. This is suppossed to be my budget build..... But a 400whp part list is freakin loooooong.....as I quickly found out.

I'll do most of the parts install myself. My "parts" budget is about 10k. Then I have another 3k for stuff that I missed, and some labor work for pulling the motor ...stuff like that. I want to have this car complete in under 13k.
......Damn I hate money. It stops me from doing what I want to do!!


So if I go with a bigger turbo... should I even port the heads?
Or do I even need the Exhaust mani ported.

I understand that if I port.... I can run the same CMF, with less PSI. ((My original thought was that I would run the EVO 16G, and port-match everything for max flow.))
BUT if I'm going to run more PSI with a bigger turbo anyway.... Should I just forget the porting and put my money into something else?

NewTTuneR said:

"Warning" DSM Newby question!
-boostedinaz- Why cant you make 400hp with a 20G & pump gas.... But you can make 400hp with a 50trim and pump gas?
Is it because the little turbo has to spin too fast to make the psi ...((so it heats up intake temprature too much or what?))

Click to expand...

It has to due with pressure VS volume and turbo effciency range. The more air you can cram into an engine the more power it will make given that the proper mods are there to support it. A small turbo like a 16G doesnt flow alot, volume wise, so to make up for it you need to turn up the boost. This will cause the turbo to move out of its effciency range and blow hot air. Hot air =detonation=loss of power. A 20G, just an example, will flow more volume at the same pressure so it is going to make more power at the same PSI. So if both turbos are at 22 PSI the 20G will still be in its effciency range while the 16G is out of it. The 20G will be pushing air that is more dense and therfore makes more power.

That is a bit generalized and may not make sense the first time. If you want I can make a better response when I get home.

Thanks Boostedinaz ....thats good enough.
"Hot Air" is kinda what I thought the problem would be.
Thanks

400awhp with bolt ons isnt impossible, but the fact you have to deal with emissions is gonna make it A LOT tougher. good luck with the project, i'd be interested to see how this works out for you. welcome to

edit: check out www.vfaq.com for any questions you might have, that site is god for new dsm owners

You can do it. Just make sure you start from the ground up.

Good shortblock.
Head all done.
Badass turbo.
Supra pump
Aeromotive fpr
DSMlink
880cc injectors
Nice frontmount/piping
Good exhaust
GOOD Tranny
Good Suspension
Awesome tuning.

I have around $13K total into my car, I am doing DSMLink next week and a Shep tranny.

Total investment into car will be around $12,000 plus the $4500 I paid for the car. I should be near 400 hp on pump with my setup once it is tuned. I am sure a built 9:1 comp bottom end would help a lot also, but not just yet.

What's funny is you just bought a dsm and I am buying a 96 WS6 next week.... Keeping the dsm though.

And spool is not as bad as you think if you have the motor setup right.

Also, you will definately need cams to make that power.

AAhahah!
Hey Mackzero.... We are on the same path... in reverse!

I have a TransAm WS6.... which is what I was building before.
Now I want to try something completly differant.... So I found the AWD DSM cars.
I paid 2800 for the Talon... And hope to reach my goal of 400awhp within my 13k budget.

Get a 98 or later F-body if you can..... the LS1 engine is the badest pushrod engine around! I love that engine!
..............but I cant wait to have my 400hp turbo 4 bangger!!! hehehehehe!!!

i just thought of this seeing as you have a 92. you should check to see if you have a 6 bolt or a 7 bolt motor as they changed over in mid 92.

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/early-late-engine.html

You'll need a bigger turbo than the 16g for your goal. My turbo ( scm61 ) can make 400+ awhp on pump and is also a nice bolt on. You CAN pass emissions with cams, but you will need a cat. You can buy complete 3" turbobacks with a test pipe and then a cat that will bolt in place. For emissions drop the test pipe and put the cat up there. No biggie.

boostedinaz said:

There was a thread a bit ago about a guy that had a 50 trim and supporting mods and still passed emmisions in CA even.

Click to expand...

There is this guy I heard about who passed with a green. I know it's basically the same thing, just adding more info.

I do recommend some work on internals, but, thats JUST me. At least remove the balance shafts and do motor mounts. Please, dont put a stupid loud exhaust on your car either!! Here's some 16g turbo and 20g turbo efficiency goodness (goodness if you're NOT the 16g)http://www.hahnracecraft.com/hahn/parts/turbo efficiency.htm I feel this will be very helpful to you since you're pretty motivated about learning how to build a fast, sleeper turbo car. Dont forget to read about water injection, i've only read good things about it and is now starting to burn a thought of a possibility into my mind as well

I know that this doesn't really have to do with actually making 400HP, but I think that you should look into getting more than a stock rebuild for your tranny. I know that there are people that somehow manage to run theirs for a long time on that kind of power level, but alll of then dont last. One of my friends has a 20g and supporting mods and so far he has broken his center diff, tranny, and front axles. You can check my mods in the profile. I haven't broken any drive train parts yet, but I am saving up for a new tranny now because I know that it is not going to last for much longer. I haven't been to a dyno yet, but I estimate that I put down around 485HP by using the dyno maths liberary from AEM.

I speak from experience when I say definately go with a bigger turbo. It sucks to be one of those people who spend money on an upgraded turbo only to be disappointed (Im one of those people). I dont understand why people like to run their turbos way out of the efficiency ranges. A 50 trim is the perfect street turbo in my opinion. Very efficient, spools quickly, and moves a good amount of air.

Also, H2O injection would be a good idea... plus its real cheap if you set it up yourself. You should also look into getting cams and having the BS removed on the new motor.

yes I agreee,it will definatly be agood idea to have a shep tranny or similar.Also you might wanna port the intake manny since youre gonna por the head,and you might need a street legal high flow cat to reach your smogable 400 mark.Nitrous or h20 injection anyone?just some suggestions

i posted a thread not that long ago about passing smog in cali

i have a t3/t4 50 trim.. and supporting mods.. passed smog.. twice.. one in a regular smog station.. then it showed up that i had to go to a test only.. and passed there also..

im AWD so dont go on the rollers.. just had to swap out my 660s with stock.. but everything else was on.. (mods in profile).. obviously not with the 3" test pipe on..

also.. for the price of a 20g.. there are bigger/better setups

RedTurboEclipse said:

also.. for the price of a 20g.. there are bigger/better setups

Click to expand...

I couldnt agree more. My 50 trim pulls air much more efficiently than my 20g (tdo5). Go bigger and better and never look back.