do i have to get a wideband to tune my car to where i get the most power? if i dont need it than i dont see spending money on it. where can i pick one up pretty cheap.

By no means does this post approach Advanced. A wideband will help you tune into the perfect A/F ratio. Simple as that. It is not needed, but very helpful. love mine. PLX makes a nice unit.

No you certainly don't need a wideband to tune you car ....but it is a very nice tool to add to your list of tuning tools. The more info I have coming in on my state of tune the easier it is to do. I like the AEM UEGO gauge kit. But If you are getting DSMlink I would go with just the UEGO controller because you can log your AF ratio.

where can i pick up one of those plx units? i am definitely going to go with dsmlink but unfortunately for me i dont have an eprom ecu. so when i get the money to get an eprom i will invest in dsmlink then. thats weird though cause i read somewhere on vfaq.com that ALL 90 model dsm's came with an eprom ecu. i opened mine up and no eprom. i even have a parts car that is a 90 and it isnt an eprom. what the hell. oh well, just another go fast goodie to buy i guess.

Staytuned said:

No you certainly don't need a wideband to tune you car ....but it is a very nice tool to add to your list of tuning tools. The more info I have coming in on my state of tune the easier it is to do. I like the AEM UEGO gauge kit. But If you are getting DSMlink I would go with just the UEGO controller because you can log your AF ratio.

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You don't think you need a wideband to properly tune your car? I don't about that, but buying my techedge was the best thing next to DSMLink..
It is necessary to get every last ounce of power from your car. How do think Nate at DSMotorsport tunes his 14b 11sec car along with all the other guys making huge power.

Sorry I don't think it's a 100% needed. I have seen a guy tune with only a AFC and run 12.2 at 118 on a 18G turbo....long before loggers and widebands came out. Hell he was 12's months after buying his 95 Talon brand new off the lot.

I agree they are a great addition to your tunning tools ....but not needed to run good times.

That's funny hearing that from somebody with as money mods as you have...just because people run good times without a WB doesn't mean they couldn't run better with one..What are you tuning off of, knock, egt?
You have DSMLink on your wishlist, the moment you get it and start reading and browsing the private board, is the moment you'll change your mind about the WB...especially since they are fairly cheap now.

I tune lots of cars from rx7's, supra's, dsm's, to turbo honduh's. There is no way I could do it without a wideband o2 and I think it should be one of the first things to get when modifying your vehicle. It makes tuning so much easier, safer and more efficient.

It doesn't even look like this guy has an EGT yet .....so why would you send him to buy a wideband setup. His money would be better spent there first and then save for a wideband later.

If his goal is to run 12's he doesn't need it yet. I am not saying he will never need it but it is not needed yet.

yeah I think you need to do some more research before you give bad advice. An egt is not neccesary to tune a car. Its a nice safety feature but its not going to tell you a/f and egt's vary so much from setup to setup there is no way to tell what a "good" egt reading is until you have established a baseline with your specific setup. I'm not saying dont get an egt because they can be very useful but in my opinion its better to get the wideband first. Or you can kill two birds with one stone and get the zietronix kit that has an egt feature.

Where i come from, the only way to tune is to use a wideband. unless the DSM has a modified o2 sensor that gives out a better range that a standard narrow band o2.

What are you guys tuning from if your not using a wideband. granit the DSM's use a maf wich will adjust the fuel maps for added air. but still, you have no way to read your exact a/f ratio, and that is what will cause engine failure.

I really like the Zietronix Zt-2. for $275 it includes a dataloging software, and is very accurate.

knowing that you can't use this device to actually tune your DSM, it should be purchased at the same time you buy the tuning devices. if you buy the Maft translator, or the Safc, you should buy a wideband so you know how to tune the car. An EGT would be nice, but there is no way to accuratly tell if your are lean by using an EGT. because if your timing is off, your EGT temps will very.

Personaly if you are going to tune your car. you need a wideband. and at only 275 there is no reason not to buy it.

ps. has anyone ever hooked up the Zietronix in the 1g? pm me if you have.

Your telling me that somebody with these mods here,

---custom 3' intake, 3' downpipe, 2.5' testpipe back exhaust, k&n drop in filter,joe p mbc, walbro 255hp,dejon tool upper ic pipe with blowthrough setup, 3' gm maf,taylor 8mm wires,palm m100 w/pocketlogger setup,750cc injectors,aeromotive afpr---

needs to go out and get a wideband right now? there is no way that this car can be tuned to run 12's without it? come on people out of the three decently modded Talons in this city 2 have run 12's without the aid of a wideband and one ran 12.2 at 118 long before pocketloggers were out. People need to learn how to tune properly and know what to look for when doing it. Sorry I can't tell someone they need it if they really don't yet.

Staytuned said:

People need to learn how to tune properly and know what to look for when doing it.

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what do you use to tune then? just the EGT? if so how do you know what your air fuel ratio is? All the guys around hear at the dynos and stuff, stress your a/f ratio to make sure you don;t blow your engine, then they use the EGT to tell what timing changes need to be made. Most of my expiriance has been with honda's and the only way that you can tune them is to get a wideband sensor. Now i know with the MAF sensor's the DSM's use they can adjust for added air, and by just upgrading injectors and a fuel pump, your computer can compensate, but still how do you know your not lean or running in the 11s in your a/f.

When i tune a honda, and when i start to tune my TSI im ganna try and keep my a/f at 12 to 1 so i never get knock, or chance blowing my engine. if your using the stock o2 sensor. if its a narrow band how do you know your not running 13 to 1 wich can cause engine damage? or if you added in inline fuel pump, how do you know what pressure to set your fuel if you don;t have your exact a/f ratio metered? I think this would be the way to get the most power for your buck.

take all those mods you listed, and say your a/f ratio is at 11 to 1 because you have no way to tell what it is. take that same car, and tune it to 12 to 1 or 12.3 to 1. which car will be faster, the one thats been tuned. just because you have tons of mods, doesn;t mean someone with a few less mods can't be as fast if its been tuned right.

I tuned last year with a SAFC and a logger. I got my T25 to put out 200whp and 230lbs of torque. I ran a 14.5 at 98.95 mph ..should have ran a lower ET but was happy with my trap speed. I watched my timing curve and kept an eye on my Egt's. You need to take in account who is asking the question, what their goals are and what their budget is. Not everyone needs the best stuff out there to run good numbers....sometimes a little homework and a little leg work can get you pretty far.

I have a wideband now myself because I am planning on 11's with my stock bottom end. And the more info I have at this point when tuning the better off I am.

My point has always been widebands are a great tuning tool.....but not everyone needs them right away.

I firmly believe in a wideband. I've tuned without one with just knock to go by, but the wideband reassures and helps me tune to the fullest potential. (Shaved 0.2 sec off the 1/4 mile and the air was hotter outside and I was running shittier gas (91 OCT).)

You don't need one per-say but it's a very good idea to get one.