Drove the car alittle today and did some logging and watched for when full boost was hit.

I hit 25psi at 3800-3900 rpm's in third gear. I am having some creep issues that have show up in the cold weather we are having. I'm not supprised though because the wastegate outlet on the bulleye housing doesn't line up perfectly with the wastegate passage on my evoIII o2 housing.

I logged a run from 2600 rpms to 6700 rpms and used excel to calculate hp and torque from lb/min, and then made a chart to display the numbers. I'm attaching a screen shot that I deleted the hp and torque numbers from, I'm running a maft blow through setup and there has been discussion's about inaccurate airflow numbers with out calibrating, I've only started calibrating so I can't guarentee the numbers are 100% correct, but the curves are 100% correct and should give you guys an idea of the how this turbo performs. This was at 25psi creeping to s in the psi on my vdo boost/vaccum gauge, I'm guessing 28 psi or so. My profile is up to date.

Changed to the 14* chip and took a drive. Even though I have AWD it has TORQUE STEER! Amazing power. I tried a launch at 5000rpm's but the Kumho MX tires caused it to bog. I will be getting a laptop and using TMO software to become familiar with computers in anticipation of DSMlink. The JM SMIM and the change from the HKS 272's to the Crower stage 4's made an astounding amount of power, seat of the pants so far. I have another chip with 18* max timing advance but am not sure how much timing I can go with using mostly pump though it is 100 Octane. Low 11's are a sure thing and a high 10 should be posible with pro tuning. Mark

My mind is going numb trying to read through 30+ pages of Holset info at 3 A.M., so I'm going to ask a few questions.

1) The H1C can be used with the Bullseye housing, correct? The hot side seems to be the same as the HX35 (I believe,) but with a smaller compressor wheel.

2) What other model numbers can be used? Just the HX40 and HX35, or are there others?

3) What is the lb/min rating on the H1C, and is there an available compressor map?

I'm sure these have been asked before, but as I said, it's hard to read through 30 pages on information and soak it all in.

Thanks a lot,

Jesse

Just for everyone's information, I will be testing an HX-40 on my shop Evo in the next few weeks. There will be plenty of data for everyone to take a look at and see what these turbos can really do. The shop car is mildly modded with a stock engine except cams FYI.

My HX35 decided to start pukeing oil Saturday, so I need to do a rebuild. I did some calling around to find out rebuild and rebalance prices. I was told $400-$500 for parts and labor for the rebuild. I've found rebuild kits on ebay for $80 shipped, so I asked how much just for a rebalance. Everyone said that as long as I mark the wheel, shaft, and nut I don't need to get it rebalanced.

This quote was taken from the holset service manual.
"Caution
This turbocharger may have been manufactured using the ‘core balance’ process and therefore MUST be
check balanced on rebuild.
A core balanced turbocharger will not have any co-relation marks. If you intend to overhaul/repair a core
balanced turbocharger, and do not have access to a core balancing machine, we recommend that you make
your own rotor co-relation marks during disassembly so that these parts can be reassembled in the same
relative positions.
Balance limits for turbocharger rebuild are shown on Holset’s Service Data Sheet.
It is important to note that operating a turbocharger with a rotor or core balance level greater than the
published limits could cause turbocharger or engine failure. If you are in any doubt regarding the balancing
process, please contact an approved Holset agent for assistance."

I'm going to buy the rebuild kit and do that part myself, in the mean time I'm going to decide if I need to get it rebalance. Have any of you guys rebuilt you holsets with out getting them balanced? What were the results?

Where is the oil coming from exactly? I read on one of the links where Dave Hall said the Holsets should not see over 55 lbs. of oil pressure. That was news to me as I take my oil from the filter housing. Mark

Mark, I found the specs to your turbo (HX-35/40). Here they are;

Compressor
2.362 inducer
3.328 exducer

Turbine
2.753 inducer
2.364 exducer

I'm sorry I didn't have them earlier, but we haven't made any of that combination in a while so it took me a while to research which wheels were installed in that turbo. Anyhow I hope that information helps.

HX-40

Compressor
2.362 inducer
3.328 exducer

Turbine
2.995 inducer
2.480 exducer

sweet97 said:

Where is the oil coming from exactly? I read on one of the links where Dave Hall said the Holsets should not see over 55 lbs. of oil pressure. That was news to me as I take my oil from the filter housing. Mark

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Its leaking into the compressor side. I bought it used off ebay and used the bullseye housing to bolt it up. From the very start I would find a very small amount of oil sitting in the compressor inlet and the car would smoke for the first few minutes of driving. But the turbo had no shaft play and it only ever smoked for the first few minutes of the day, so I thought I would be fine for a while.

I also get my oil from the filter housing. I have a little more pressure than that at start up, about that at cruise, and alot more at full throttle. I'm pretty sure it was on the way out, but I wonder if that excellerated it. Looks like maybe we should look into a restrictor of some kind. Any one have any idea's?

90AWDTalon said:

Its leaking into the compressor side. I bought it used off ebay and used the bullseye housing to bolt it up. From the very start I would find a very small amount of oil sitting in the compressor inlet and the car would smoke for the first few minutes of driving. But the turbo had no shaft play and it only ever smoked for the first few minutes of the day, so I thought I would be fine for a while.

I also get my oil from the filter housing. I have a little more pressure than that at start up, about that at cruise, and alot more at full throttle. I'm pretty sure it was on the way out, but I wonder if that excellerated it. Looks like maybe we should look into a restrictor of some kind. Any one have any idea's?

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Yes, I have a solution. I have restrictor fittings ranging from .060 to .090.

I seem to be having the same problem, with my holset turbo. but I do not get smoke on start up at all. shifting at 5000 rpm I don't get any smoke. but when I hold it all the way to 7000, and about third gear. I am getting smoke. I smoked the dyno out last time I went. . on both of the holset's I have had. I have had this problem. first one did not have Map Width Enhancement Groove.2nd one does have it. that's a whole nother subject. how high of oil pressure with the balance shaft should you usually have? (from the oil housing) I might need to try to get it from the head. not trying to waste 350 for a rebuild I might not need.


by the way I am looking for a mirage/colt, or hyndai excel from 89-93. If you know of one pm me. in california area please only.

joeracer321 said:

Yes, I have a solution. I have restrictor fittings ranging from .060 to .090.

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do you have any pics? I am very interested in the restrictor.

joeracer321 said:

Yes, I have a solution. I have restrictor fittings ranging from .060 to .090.

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Looked at your website and didn't see them. Which one would you recomend?

90AWDTalon said:

Looked at your website and didn't see them. Which one would you recomend?

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It's not really a part that I advertise. I keep a batch of them in stock for people that need them. I would think that a .080-.085 restrictor would do the trick.

Well i finally found an hx30 it need a rebuild but take a look on the compressor wheel.

Left Mitsubishi TE04H Right Holset HX30



side by side T04B left right HX30




On this pic i put the HX30 on top of the T04B



Notice how "fat" it is..


on this one is side by side to a TD04L (stock from a stratus 97 2.4 mexican turbo)


I guess this HX30 will put my 300whp goal easy on my 2.4 dohc engine

Josh thanks for the data on wheel sizes.
I had a chip here from my 750cc injectors. This chip has 18* minimum timing advance and being compensating for 750cc inj's I had to lean the base on my MAF-Translator by 20%. KEYDIVER gave me the go ahead to try the chip. Well it really woke up the motor! With the 100 unleaded still in the tank I had a couple of Scanmaster 1/4 mile runs with the MPH being 119, 121 with 27psi on the 119 and 30psi on the 121. My times have not come down with the speeds goping up but my driving is suspect as with my physical condition my leg cramps up just holding the gas pedal to the floor! launching is inconsistant with the new rubber and the ACT 2600 is dying.
I have to say I am pleased with the overall response with the extra timing across the rpm range and will be satisfied with the Bullseye turbine. I realize there are compromises with any made to fit stock flange turbines. I never intended to build a 1/4 mile car but with the scanmaster's feature to measure 1/4 mile times and getting it's info from the ECU it's fairly accurate and good enough to use as a test for mods. The addition of the JM SMIM and Crower stage 4's made a 5-7 MPH gain in 1/4 mile speeds. I can see where having timing control with something like DSMlink would add a great deal of power if tuned properly. I am pleased where things are now and know there is still more power to be extracted.
The laptop fell through as it was no good so no TMO logging yet. More to come! Mark

sweet97 said:

I have to say I am pleased with the overall response with the extra timing across the rpm range and will be satisfied with the Bullseye turbine. I realize there are compromises with any made to fit stock flange turbines.

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Congrats Mark I think once you really get some seat and tuning time in, you'll be able to get alot more out of your setup.

Let me know when you get the TMO Datalogger working. I've got a nice little mod that which allows you to datalog boost or IATs using readily available GM sensors .

BTW, tracks open up there in Siberia NY or was that you in last nights Cops episode

sweet97 said:

Josh thanks for the data on wheel sizes.
I had a chip here from my 750cc injectors. This chip has 18* minimum timing advance and being compensating for 750cc inj's I had to lean the base on my MAF-Translator by 20%. KEYDIVER gave me the go ahead to try the chip. Well it really woke up the motor! With the 100 unleaded still in the tank I had a couple of Scanmaster 1/4 mile runs with the MPH being 119, 121 with 27psi on the 119 and 30psi on the 121. My times have not come down with the speeds goping up but my driving is suspect as with my physical condition my leg cramps up just holding the gas pedal to the floor! launching is inconsistant with the new rubber and the ACT 2600 is dying.
I have to say I am pleased with the overall response with the extra timing across the rpm range and will be satisfied with the Bullseye turbine. I realize there are compromises with any made to fit stock flange turbines. I never intended to build a 1/4 mile car but with the scanmaster's feature to measure 1/4 mile times and getting it's info from the ECU it's fairly accurate and good enough to use as a test for mods. The addition of the JM SMIM and Crower stage 4's made a 5-7 MPH gain in 1/4 mile speeds. I can see where having timing control with something like DSMlink would add a great deal of power if tuned properly. I am pleased where things are now and know there is still more power to be extracted.
The laptop fell through as it was no good so no TMO logging yet. More to come! Mark

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Have you ever thought about running the Holset in its rightful turbine housing? This thing can't possibly be performing to its potential in the Mitsu housing. 119 & 121mph is nothing to sneeze at but 27-30 psi w/ good timing from a 70lb/min turbo should yield much higher trap speeds.

Reese92tsi said:

Have you ever thought about running the Holset in its rightful turbine housing? This thing can't possibly be performing to its potential in the Mitsu housing. 119 & 121mph is nothing to sneeze at but 27-30 psi w/ good timing from a 70lb/min turbo should yield much higher trap speeds.

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Read back a few pages. My friend Carl has trapped 127 at 28psi on an HX40 in the Bullseye housing, barely tuned and with a clutch engagement problem that meant waiting until the revs dropped to like 3k between every shift. Easily 130+ as it sits with clean flat-shifts. I've also heard of more than one 600+whp dyno from the HX40 in a DSM housing.

Reese92tsi said:

Have you ever thought about running the Holset in its rightful turbine housing? This thing can't possibly be performing to its potential in the Mitsu housing. 119 & 121mph is nothing to sneeze at but 27-30 psi w/ good timing from a 70lb/min turbo should yield much higher trap speeds.

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With a $499. DN Performance exhaust manifold and ported EVO3 o2 housing I am pretty much committed to the stock Mitsu flange so I will work with the Bullseye.
I also had 100 octane unleaded in the tank, better than 93 octane but not race gas by any means. I am also tuning with the MAF-Translator so I would not say it had optimum timing either. However I do continue to show improvement. Never intended this to be a race car and sorta fell into the Holset while waiting for my AGP RS60T to be warranty replaced. I like the turbo and am aware of it's and, even more so, my limitations. I have located a place that has some 114 octane fuel so I may try a bit to see what it will do with that. More to come, mark!

I feel where you're comin from man. Good luck with your tuning.

Mark I am glad to see that your car is getting better. Timing makes all the difference in the world.

Thanks! I got an 11.68 yesterday, my best time yet at 119mph. Fixed a shifter bushing under the hood and added some more race fuel. How much timing with this Holset would be enough? must be a point of diminishing return with timing, yes?
I added 2* to my base timing and upped the boost a couple of psi but came out too hard at 5000 rpm's and spun first to 8K and had to shift but lost revs because of the spinning, still managed an 11.97 so high 11's are becoming more regular. I will try again at 4750 and see if that gives a better launch. My timing at WOT/upper maps will be 20* now. Is that enough? Then try more boost if not knocking? Not sure where the turbine becomes a bottleneck. Almost likes more timing and less boost the best! Mark

sweet97 said:

Thanks! I got an 11.68 yesterday, my best time yet at 119mph. Fixed a shifter bushing under the hood and added some more race fuel. How much timing with this Holset would be enough? must be a point of diminishing return with timing, yes?
I added 2* to my base timing and upped the boost a couple of psi but came out too hard at 5000 rpm's and spun first to 8K and had to shift but lost revs because of the spinning, still managed an 11.97 so high 11's are becoming more regular. I will try again at 4750 and see if that gives a better launch. My timing at WOT/upper maps will be 20* now. Is that enough? Then try more boost if not knocking? Not sure where the turbine becomes a bottleneck. Almost likes more timing and less boost the best! Mark

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Yes, there is a "max" timming you could say, where it starts to hurt more than help. Reallyu, shoot for a desiered boost level. Where the turbo is efficient, and sutible for the gas you are running. One you have that down, stuff timming into it until it wants to knock, and then play with the fuel until you find the happy medium.

Thus-My hillbilly tunning method.

sweet97 said:

Thanks! I got an 11.68 yesterday, my best time yet at 119mph. Fixed a shifter bushing under the hood and added some more race fuel. How much timing with this Holset would be enough? must be a point of diminishing return with timing, yes?
I added 2* to my base timing and upped the boost a couple of psi but came out too hard at 5000 rpm's and spun first to 8K and had to shift but lost revs because of the spinning, still managed an 11.97 so high 11's are becoming more regular. I will try again at 4750 and see if that gives a better launch. My timing at WOT/upper maps will be 20* now. Is that enough? Then try more boost if not knocking? Not sure where the turbine becomes a bottleneck. Almost likes more timing and less boost the best! Mark

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You mentioned a few posts back about using the Scanmaster's 1/4 mile function. Is this what you're basing these numbers on or did you go to a real track?

Scanmaster Steve. I know the bias against such devices but this device gets it's data from the ECU just like a logger so if the MPH is not reliable then any logger that plugs into the diagnostic port is not reliable. You can also take the weight of my car and myself which is around 3350 when alone or 3500+ with a friend and use the trap against similar cars and it's very close. I am not a drag racer per say and am simply trying to get the car to it's optimum potential. Escort/passport ran at the same time as the Scanmaster had me .2 quicker and 3 mph faster so I take the Scanmaster as being the more accurate, again getting it's data from the ECU. For me it's a way to gauge improvements. Just like each track and each dyno would have the same car with different data due to the inherent differences to atmosphere and dyno's. Even a dyno is a tuning tool and not 100% accurate according to a test done by Turbo mag.
Everything I wrote after "Scanmaster Steve." Is to "rebut" whatever anyone wants to say! Purists! Thanks, Mark
PS: I went to dsmtimes.org and found my et and MPH are right on the money!