Road Race car

[D's GS-T]

Well ive always wanted to do some road racing since i was about 10 years old, and hopefully if money isnt tight ill be able to get started this summer. The question i have is im not sure what car to choose. Right now I have A TSI FWD that ill be using to get out there and get started, but im not sure what i should do down the road. Im really looking to get serious about road racing. not as a career really or anything, but it will be something that i will participate in a regularily, and take very serious. so the question i have is should i keep my tsi FWD, or switch to an AWD next winter. from most of the reading ive been doing its seems like both cars have both advanages, and disadvantages, and it seems that quite a few FWD cars have had very good success. I guess what im asking is does it really matter what the car is as for as drivetrain goes. id imagine that a good driver could drive either one, but if you were getting serious about the sport what would you start with. and i dont plan on pushing major power maybe like 3-400hp at the end of the day, but again thats quite a ways down the road, so tell me what you guys think. Oh and i do want it to be a dsm as well, I eventually hope to be able to move on to an 3rd gen RX-7 someday when i got the money, but as of now im going with what i can afford, and these cars seem to be able to have good success for being on the cheaper side. anyway any help is appreciated, i torn between the two, tell me what you guys think
Thanks
Dion

 

[habitatguy187]

At 400whp a fwd is going to be spinning tires out of every corner. Why wait till winter to buy a awd and not just sell your fwd and buy an awd this summer? That way you don't have to do the same mods twice.

 

[D's GS-T]

well i could go LSD and with good sticky tires id think it would be managable. this car isnt getting modded so i don't have to worry about doing stuff twice once i decide what car to go with im sticking with it to the end

 

[turboglenn]

The problem with 2g eclipses and road racing is the tank, I think there was a NASCAR engineer in the mitsu/chrysler plant the day they designed the fuel tank, making it more suited for a LTO (left turn only) style car. This makes you have to race with near a full tank of gas

The AWD's have it better because of the sophon tube helping keep the baffles full by drawing fuel from the other side. There's one avantage.

I use to auto cross my 2g GS-T, but finally quit when we lost our good spot on the AFB after 9/11. It was okay, but the 1g AWD's are a lot better, 2g cars are pigs, but i own one and love it

 

[Flash]

At 400whp a fwd is going to be spinning tires out of every corner. Why wait till winter to buy a awd and not just sell your fwd and buy an awd this summer? That way you don't have to do the same mods twice.

Stop it, I think you may be confused.

 

[Defiant]

Get an old racer's Miata.

 

[338vr4]

Run what you have now.
Im running my old pig of a Vr4. All im doing is hpdes and track days with diffrent groups out there. nothing to crazy.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

to get started you need to do a few things...

1. Make sure all of your maintenance is up to date! Fluids, belts, plugs.
2. Invest in some good brake pads. Atleast a Hawk HPS, preferably an HP +
3. Get some SS Brake Lines and BLEED the brakes (have some more fluid with you so you can do another bleed at the track if needed)
4. Get a good set of tires to hit the track with.
5. Bring any spare parts you have as you get deeper and deeper into it.
6. Invest in a good helmet

 

[KBR]

At 400whp a fwd is going to be spinning tires out of every corner. Why wait till winter to buy a awd and not just sell your fwd and buy an awd this summer? That way you don't have to do the same mods twice.

pls. read this..

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/road-course-autocross/325313-time-attack-build-blog.html


you can still use a FWD car for road racing, even w/ 400 whp. the trick is that you just need to dial-in your suspension & tire combo. also, you need a good LSD to road race with (I'd recommend Quaife LSD)


aite, peace.

 

[D's GS-T]

So far im thinking hard about keeping my TSI. i already know its a good running car with no problems, and all i need is maitenence and what not to get it ready to go

 

[tsiboosted]

There is nothing wrong road racing FWD cars. Look at Real Time Racing in their Acuras on Speed. They seem to do pretty well. I race my 2G FWD car and we finally have it close to being dialed in. One big thing you have to get over and find away around is the massive understeer the car puts out. If you are not going to be doing heavy mods to it at first. Its not as bad as when you step up the power. The car will just push off the track like a dump truck on rails. No fun to drive at all.

As Marti said, what you want to do first is address the maintenance to the car, brakes and tires. I personally run the Hawk HP+ in the front and HPS in the rear. It works very well for me on the track. SS lines and super blue fluid.

You will want an LSD for sure. It makes a world of difference coming out of turns. The main thing to me racing a FWD car was getting the suspension and tire package down. My package is as follows on suspension, tires and brakes:

Front
KYB AGX Struts
Ground Control Coilovers w/Eibach srpings 650 lbs
Hawk HP+ Pads
Powerslot Solid face rotors
-2.5 degrees camber 0.00 toe
Tire Pressures: 32 (cold) 39 (hot)

Rear
KYB AGX Struts
Ground Control Coilovers w/Eibach srpings 350 lbs
Hawk HPS pads
Powerslot Solid face rotors
-1.5 degrees camber 0.00 toe
Tire Pressures: 30 (cold) 37 (hot)

Tires
Hankook Z214 Slicks C71 compound 225/50/16 on all 4's.

The biggest thing is to get out there and practice. Go to as many HPDE's as you can and get that valuable seat time. You will feel what the car and yo uneed to improve on each lap of each event. Dont worry about getting passed or passing people. Get on the track and learn to co exist with other cars at speed and hitting your marks. Staying smooth on the wheel, gas and brakes. Dont go sliding the car around corners all the time. It may seem faster, but its not. Its an old saying and used all the time...But slow in fast out is always a good line. Just be smooth and try to stay as consistant as you can and everything else will come in time. Its all about track time, track time, track time. Constantly trying to improve yourself and the car each time out. Keep us posted and good luck

 

[D's GS-T]

thanks man, thats the kind of stuff i needed to hear

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

and buy a seat. You're ass is going to be all over the place. Go to a shop where you can test each seat out and find the one that holds you the best. There aree some great options out there. DO NOT go cheap anything related to safety. INVEST in a helmet, seat and harness.

 

[D's GS-T]

how are the stock evo recaros. i was thinking about getting a couple of those if they felt ok, or should i go with something a little more race like, for wxample like a sparco race seat

 

[habitatguy187]

pls. read this..

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/road-course-autocross/325313-time-attack-build-blog.html


you can still use a FWD car for road racing, even w/ 400 whp. the trick is that you just need to dial-in your suspension & tire combo. also, you need a good LSD to road race with (I'd recommend Quaife LSD)


aite, peace.

In the first post the OP spoke a lot about money, and how he wanted to use a dsm because they go fast for cheap. A quaife lsd is around $1200 plus labor if you can't do it yourself. He could easily sell his fwd and use that $1200 he would spend on a quaife towards a very nice awd. I'm not saying that it's impossible to stick to the track with fwd and 400whp, but it's much much easier to find an awd.

BTW, my buddy has a 2g fwd with only around 315whp or so and he can spin his brand new tires if he wants to, think what another 85whp would do

 

[snowborder714]

I'd say to just get out there this summer and have fun. Start getting used to learning how to drive and feel what the car is doing. Most of the items that will benefit you early on will be things that can be transferred (helmet, seat, harness, wheels, tires, etc.) if you choose to move to an AWD.

That is my current plan. I have a GST and will be starting with road racing this summer (did autox and drag last year, will continue this year). I know I want an AWD at some point. But almost everything you do can be transferred over.

 

[tsiboosted]

and buy a seat. You're ass is going to be all over the place. Go to a shop where you can test each seat out and find the one that holds you the best. There aree some great options out there. DO NOT go cheap anything related to safety. INVEST in a helmet, seat and harness.

Yes, PLEASE do NOT go cheap on safety gear at anytime. I see allot of things that could have been avoided in incidents if the person would have invested a little more into the safety gear. These things could save your life. Its never worth the risk just to save a few bucks here and there.

Also, on wanting 400 hp. Where power is always nice in some cases. It doesnt mean you will always go fast. I see 300+ hp cars get passed by 150 hp Miatas every time I am at the track. So dont go thinking you "have" to have 400 hp to have fun or be fast on track. Fast is related to your cars setup, your line and knowledge of the track and what to do with it. Its not always about the power you put down. In race trim, I put down somewhere near 230 - 240 hp and I can hang with 911's, 944's, 952's, BMW's, 350z's things like that. And I know they have way more power than I do. Just more things to think about is all.

 

[UofACATS]

For those suggesting to go AWD, think about the other AWD cars you will be competing against. I would stay with your FWD platform and study what others have done. Go from there.

 

[wilddog]

Front
KYB AGX Struts
Ground Control Coilovers w/Eibach srpings 650 lbs
Hawk HP+ Pads
Powerslot Solid face rotors
-2.5 degrees camber 0.00 toe
Tire temps: 32 (cold) 39 (hot)

Rear
KYB AGX Struts
Ground Control Coilovers w/Eibach srpings 350 lbs
Hawk HPS pads
Powerslot Solid face rotors
-1.5 degrees camber 0.00 toe
Tire temps: 30 (cold) 37 (hot)

0.00 toe is going to be a little tail happy

 

[tsiboosted]

0.00 toe is going to be a little tail happy

Suprisingly not at all. The car is pretty neutral on most tracks. I have almost always ran 0.00 toe on the car and it drives fine on the track. Its easy to get the car to NOT be tail happy. It was harder trying to make it tail happy. But with some minor coilover adjustments and tire pressure changes...Its pretty neutral like I said. Just some love from the gas pedal and its all good

Also, its not at a "perfect" 0.00 toe. Its actually what I have listed out below. But its pretty close.

RF - 0.00
LF - 0.01
RR - 0.01
LR - 0.03

 

[BayState300GT]

Dont worry about your car being FWD, try and shed some wieght, remove your interior and other unnecessary accessories in the car. You dont need alot of power mods to do road racing. Just get a walbro fuel pump, a turbo back 3" exhaust, a manual boost controller, boost gauge, maybe throw a 14b in there or a 16g (if you can afford it) get a boost gauge, an intake and maybe an aftermarket BOV. Just do some simple bolt on mods, to the motor. Dont get crazy with power. There are some v dubs and hondas out there with like 120hp with a stripped interior and a nice suspension set up that actaully make some pretty good times. I do road race (im starting this up coming season) and i just got a job working at a road race shop. Since my 2g awd isnt done yet, im going to be running my daily driven 3000gt N/t FWD and the only power mods i have is a K&N intake and thats it. I also have a stripped interior, but you dont need a bunch of crazy mods to road race.

 

[tsiboosted]

Dont worry about your car being FWD, try and shed some wieght, remove your interior and other unnecessary accessories in the car. You dont need alot of power mods to do road racing. Just get a walbro fuel pump, a turbo back 3" exhaust, a manual boost controller, boost gauge, maybe throw a 14b in there or a 16g (if you can afford it) get a boost gauge, an intake and maybe an aftermarket BOV. Just do some simple bolt on mods, to the motor. Dont get crazy with power. There are some v dubs and hondas out there with like 120hp with a stripped interior and a nice suspension set up that actaully make some pretty good times. I do road race (im starting this up coming season) and i just got a job working at a road race shop. Since my 2g awd isnt done yet, im going to be running my daily driven 3000gt N/t FWD and the only power mods i have is a K&N intake and thats it. I also have a stripped interior, but you dont need a bunch of crazy mods to road race.

Good suggestions there. Thats what I was saying earlier in the thread. More power does not always mean faster on the track. Spend more fo your money on suspension for the car. Thats where it is needed anyway. Our cars with basic bolt ons are pretty quick on track as it is. Last season I had a T-25 and just the basic bolt ons and the car performed great for me. Its a brick with all the stuff you dont need on there. So trip all that stuff out, basically take it down to nothing and go from there. All you need is a seat, wheel and motor and you are good to go then

 

[05gt Guru]

I have auto xed and road raced many cars including my DD legacy GT. You said 300-400whp? I think you should do drivetrian and suspension and brakes first. Im not trying to offend you as i dont know you but if you think you can drive a 300-400whp car to it full potential around a track you got another thing coming. People who have never been on a road course before cant even drive a 200hp car to its max. I know because my 257whp legacy weighs 3400lbs and i have passed vette, porsches, vipers and many more high end cars. Now im not saying that someone who can drive one of those cars wouldnt blow my legacy away but thats another story.

Long story short, you need lots of practice and your gs-ts stock power would proably more than you can use to its potential which is why i suggest susupenion and brake mods first.

 

[D's GS-T]

whoa guys, i never said i was going to learn on a 3-400 whp car. i said 3-400 a ways down the road not right away. anyway i may be keeping the talon anyway since its leeking oil or something anyway, so it will probably be the car i use since ill have to fix it up anyway.