Sell whole or part out?

[Slow old poop]

I will be selling my car at the end of the season (or immediately, if somebody wants it) and I was wondering whether to sell it as a complete race car or part it out.

Here are the gory details:

1990 Eclipse GSX AWD with straight body, good paint, no dents

Kirk bolt-in cage (modified to fit a DSM--not sure if we can get it out without cutting)
Kirkey seats
New five point harnesses
Baffled gas tank
Interior gutted, but I still have all the stock seats and panels.

AMS 2.3 stroker motor, dynos at 355 hp with 20G turbo, P&P head, 272 cams, 20G Frank Turbo, external wastegate, 660cc injectors, 2G MAF, Buscher FPR, Walboro Fuel Pump, Extreme Motorsports FMIC and piping, Fluidyne aluminum radiator, DSMlink, Remote oil filter, oil cooler.

Good trans, good ACT 2600 clutch, good Xfer case

Ground Control adjustable suspension with Koni adjustable shocks
Front and rear strut braces
Camber plates in front
Stoptech brakes (widened 10 mm to accept fatter rotor)

Four Cobra SVT 9-in replica wheels with Toyo RA-1s
Five SSR GT-1 rims with Dunlop Super Sports (rain tires)

The car is set up for NASA TTS class. It is currently the Midwest points leader in TTR. When we dynoed it at AMS, we tuned it for TTS.

So, what do you think? Sell it whole for $10,000 or part it out?

 

[absolute_DSM]

Very solid car Rich has got here. Such a beast.

Id say sell it as a whole, it would be great to keep it on the track. Its got a lot of life left.

 

[stealthTT]

Sell whole
Pros: less work
Cons: less money - might never sell - dumb kid buys it and destroys it

Part-out
Pros: more money - I could use some of the parts
Cons: lot's of work to remove, sell, and package parts - more hassle dealing with scammers, low-ballers, & deadbeat buyers - it can be heartbreaking to part out something you created (unless you hate it)

 

[RusherRacing]

If you can find a buyer keep whole! Because its somewhat sorted that should help with the sale. Does it have a log book etc?


I put mine up forsale on a few sites awhile back and haven't had a single bite! So if I am going to sell mine its probably going to need to be parted out which is really sad to see a car with that much capability be parted! Yours is street legal you have that working in your favor!

 

[Slow old poop]

- it can be heartbreaking to part out something you created (unless you hate it)

I don't hate it. I just can't afford to run it any more in a race class.

As you know, it is extremely competitive in TTS, even on worn tires. The Midwest NASA region is probably the toughest (with all due respect to California) in the country, and I can run with the big boys. The car would probably clean up in in TTS in any other region on Toyo tires. Here, to win, I gotta run Hoosier$$$.

I still think it has the makings of a national class winner in TTS. Would that I could prove it.

Rich

 

[Defiant]

Is this a For Sale post?

Parting it out would be more money, maybe even double. The work isn't pleasant, the shipping's a pain in the ass, and the whole procedure will break your heart.

It's the Band-Aid conundrum. How much further up the hill do you want to push this ball of shit with a fork in this rain?

And no matter how much, you know you could have gotten another $500 for it, and the buyer knows you'd have taken $500 less. It's the nuisance of being human.

 

[Slow old poop]

Is this a For Sale post? .

No, just trying to see what is the best way to go when it comes time to sell.

I still want to experience 150 mph at Road America in October before I pack it in. I've pulled 6500 in 5th gear at RA (142 mph), and with the new tune I hope to see 7200 in 5th, which would be over 150. That will give me another tale to tell when they send me off to the Iowa State Home for the Bewildered--along with sheer terror on the banking at Iowa Speedway, going three wide into turns at Autobahn, and running in the rain at Mid America. It's been fun.

 

[schemauer]

Do you still plan to do ANY track events in the future?? If the time and $$ for full out racing are just too much, maybe consider just driving the various club track days that are available? This will still let you get your fix on a much smaller budget. If you do - I don't think you'll ever find a way to replicate the car for what you'll sell it for. And you'll kick yourself when you want to attend some track events again someday and have to go out and buy a Miata or something. I also think $10k is a bit on the rich side for the car. Maybe $5k to $7k might be more realistic.

Have you considered just selling the "stuff" that you wouldn't need if just doing the track days? You could sell the extra wheel and tire sets. Sell the AMS engine and throw in something less exotic. You'll still have a fun, sorted car to take to a few track events each year.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

This thread has got me thinking about just parting out my car. I am in the market in the near future for an evo and I will probably be able to make more money parting it all out. I hate to see something i created and fine-tuned and complete take it all apart and haul the shell to a junk yard.

 

[Quasimondo]

Sell it whole if you can, but if nobody bites, part it out.

As much as I'd like for you to get your asking price, don't be surprised if you don't get anywhere near as much. The picture you use isn't the best so I can't tell how nice of a car it is, but I've seen guys with pricier parts lists fail to sell their car for what they were asking for and eventually part it out because that was the only way they could get their money from it. Part of the DSM mystique, I suppose. If it was a 240SX, people would be killing themselves to buy it.

Take a good pic and post a classified ad in the back of a publication like Grassroots Motorsports or list it in your local SCCA/NASA board, you'll probably have a better chance of nailing your asking price with those guys.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

It's going to be tough selling it for 10k, But that's how it goes. You never get what you put into it unfortunatly as I'm sure you already know. And with most dsmer's, You are selling to a community that has a lowes card and a car full of plumbing mods. I've learned the hard way, Over 1 dozen times.

 

[Slow old poop]

Have you considered just selling the "stuff" that you wouldn't need if just doing the track days? You could sell the extra wheel and tire sets. Sell the AMS engine and throw in something less exotic. You'll still have a fun, sorted car to take to a few track events each year.

That's a good idea. Thanks.

Rich

 

[mavisky]

I think alot of people in the dsm world go nuts and build ultra fast cars that take ultra large budgest to maintain. My car is classed pretty low and should prove fairly reliable due to it's low horsepower.

I hate to say it, but Greg was a perfect example. A stock motor with an evo III 16g got him two titles, and a 600hp capable race motor couldn't finish a race.

In order to finish first, you first must finish.

My vote. Back down the hp extremes and make a more reliable fun to drive setup.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

This is a great read:
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets3.html

shows how much the driver effects your times over the car itself.

 

[schemauer]

I second that idea - less is more. I'll tell you my story on this.

My track car; the former Archer Racing car; has almost a stock engine. It dyno's about 195 hp at the wheels at 15psi. When I took the engine apart the first time it even had the stock head bolts and gasket. This from a car that won it's class in 1993 and also ran some endurance races back "in the day". This car will lap Road America in about 2:45. Light weight, full cage, stock size brakes - consistent, fun and reliable. For a 14 year old car built with 14 year old technology it will embarrass many new Vettes, EVO's and the like. Unload it, run it, and load it up 'til the next event.

My '95 Eclipse that I used to use for a track car will run the quarter mile in the mid 12's on race gas at ~24 psi, full weight. I haven't dyno'd it yet - but it would show substantially more hp than the Archer car, and I have a lot of money and time into it. This car ran Road America in about 2:46 - 2:47. But it would overheat, the stock size brakes were barely adequate, had to swap tires and brakes back and forth for the weekends, etc. A lot more work.

Before I bought the Archer car I was at the point that I needed to upgrade the brakes on the '95 if I was going to keep using it as a track car. This also meant I'd have to buy a larger set of wheels than the 17x8's I had on the car. When all was said and done I bought the track car for only a few thousand more than the brake mods and new wheels would have cost for the '95. It was a no-brainer. You can find a lot of these former race cars for reasonable prices. Think about it - what is the market for a used race car?? A few marque enthusiasts here and there, but that's about it. To build the Archer car again would probably cost about 3x's what I paid for it.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

^^ When i run at the track, i de-tune my car to run 16 psi. There is no need for a track car to be able to run 11 second 1/4 mile, a track car must be able to be beatin, and beatin, over and over again. Tires cost enough money, it would suck to have to replace head gaskets and fix the tranny after every race just because your car has that 100 more hp to only give you maybe a second faster lap time at RA.

anyways, back on topic...

i think I am going to part my car out at the end of this season.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

I bought my srt4 1 year ago. I did a full build on it (over 10k), And was going to trade it in, So I parted it. I changed my mind.. (so give it ALOT OF THOUGH), And built the car again, For another 10,000$ cash.. after 2hrs of driving it, I ended up parting it again now, Almost done with the part out and i'm never building it again. Just make sure you want to definatly sell or part it, Before it's too late, And make sure you are 100$ sure, Not like me You'll lose alot of money. I lost way over $40,000 CASH , in under 1 year because I could not make my mind up.

Once you start parting, It'll go fast!

 

[Slow old poop]

I think alot of people in the dsm world go nuts and build ultra fast cars that take ultra large budgest to maintain. My car is classed pretty low and should prove fairly reliable due to it's low horsepower. I hate to say it, but Greg was a perfect example. A stock motor with an evo III 16g got him two titles, and a 600hp capable race motor couldn't finish a race. In order to finish first, you first must finish.
My vote. Back down the hp extremes and make a more reliable fun to drive setup.

There's nothing wrong with my motor. It's tuned for just 355 hp, not 600, althouigh it could be tuned for much higher.

 

[Slow old poop]

All those negative vibes, from comments on driving skills to too many mods, makes me realize that I have not explained the car properly.

The car was never intended to be a "fun" HPDE track car. It was built (within the limitations of my finances and the vagaries of the NASA rules) to be a national champion. With the help of my fantastic crew, we've built a car thar can win TTS. Even before it was tuned by AMS and got a set of new Hoosiers, we ran with and beat the hot cars in the Midwest region. Circumstances have prevented me from running the new tune and tires against these cars (and I have been fairly honest in these pages about the sorting problems we've had), so I will never be able to actually prove that the car can be champion. However, we plan to run the NASA event at Autobahn to see how we do in TTS and the Speed Seekers event at Road America to see how our lap times compare to those at the NASA event earlier this year.

When you run a car like this, things break and fall off. The legendary Greg Collier told me that he failed to finish an average of 4 out of 5 races while he was sorting his national champion car, so it ain't easy to run with the big boys. When you crank the boost, run the car on the hairy edge at all times, and push it to its cornering and braking limits, all sorts of weird stuff can happen. You would not BELIEVE the weird things that happened to us (I bet Greg Collier understands this perfectly). It's all part of the sorting process.

With the exception of Dav Lafavor, who is running in PTC, I suspect there really isn't anyone else who wants to be a national champion enough to deal with the expense and the agony, so nobody will buy the car outright. And it is way too much car for somebody to run as a "fun" track car. It is beginning to look like I probably need to part it out and sell all the good parts.

So, what's the going rate for used race parts? Half the new price?
Shoot, I even have a brand new set of $1100 Hoosier 275/17s that have never been on a track.

 

[mavisky]

I was not aware that you were wanting to campaign a national level championship car in TTS.

My point was by no means related directly to you though. A good friend of mine is considering selling his 600+hp dsm after building it for 3 years on a shoestring budget because he keeps breaking little things over and over and can't afford the upkeep, but a 600hp streetable dsm takes lots of upkeep money or tons of money up front while building it to keep it reliable.

My point was more to the effect of possibly detuning the car and backing the hp level back down as it may still be fast enough for you to win tta or ttb or something while being much more reliable. If TTS is the class you have your sights set on then yes it takes an very deep pocketbook to keep up with the competition, but in TTB the car could still be very competitive while being less costly to maintain, much like the old Archer car. It was another thought for you to keep enjoying competitive time trial racing without the massive expenses associated with the car's upkeep in it's current state. Sell off the massive race motor and you may be able to drop a class with the loss in points. After all our cars can make 350hp all day long without some super fancy pants race motor. My friend's 2g put down 340hp on a stock 2g block with a set of 272's, evo III 16g, and some racegas. Your 20g on that same motor would make good hp while saving you some points.

I didn't want the energy to come off as negative, if anything I'm trying to think of an alternative to you keeping the car on the track and still be competitive for less money.

 

[Slow old poop]

I was not aware that you were wanting to campaign a national level championship car in TTS. :

That was the plan, anyway. We weren't sure where it would fit until we got it dynoed, and it dropped perfectly (power to weight) into TTS without doing a radical tune. It is within 10 hp of being at the very top of the class, exactly where it needs to be. TTS is a cool class, because you no longer worry about NASA points being assessed for aero, tires, and all that other stuff that complicates TTB and TTA. A little more hp and it would have gone into TTR, where it would not be competitive on a national level. So, it is where it belongs.

Alas, sorting problems (similar to what Greg Collier went through in his early years) made it impossible to wage a campaign. It looks like it will be a perfect car for the TTS class...next year. Unfortunately, I can't run it next year, for lots of reasons. Again, Greg Collier probably understands.

As for dropping the hp and running TTB or TTA: I suppose the next owner could do that. Me, I like running with the big boys.

Rich

 

[Slow old poop]

The consenus here seems to be that I can't sell it whole for $10K. Hmmm....
So, what do you think these parts will be worth?

1990 Eclipse GSX with straight body, good paint, no dents, Kirk bolt-in cage, Kirkey seats, new five point harnesses, baffled gas tank, interior gutted
Sell it as a roller with cage and seats, no engine or trans, stock suspension. What's it worth? $2,000?

AMS 2.3 stroker motor, dynos at 355 hp with 20G turbo, P&P head, 272 cams, 20G Frank Turbo, external wastegate, 660cc injectors, 2G MAF, Buscher FPR--new, that's about $7K. This motor could go to 600hp with a different turbo and bigger injectors. It has about 400 track miles on it, no street miles, oil change after every event.
So, what's it worth? $3,500?

Miscellaneous parts:
Walboro Fuel Pump-- $100?
Extreme Motorsports FMIC and piping--$250?
Fluidyne aluminum radiator--$150?
DSMlink--$500?
Remote oil filter w/lines--$150?
Oil cooler--$50?

Good trans -- $250?
Good ACT 2600 clutch--$50?
Good Xfer case -- $150?

Ground Control adjustable suspension with Koni adjustable shocks, Front and rear strut braces, Camber plates in front -- all for $500?

Stoptech brakes (widened 10 mm to accept fatter rotor)
That's about $2K new, so about $1000?

Four Cobra SVT 9-in replica wheels with Toyo RA-1s
About $800?

Five SSR GT-1 rims with Dunlop Super Sports (rain tires)
Those wheels were $400 each new, but they are a little knocked up...maybe $750 for the set of 5 with tires?

Do these prices sound about right? Too high? Too low?

I have no idea what prices are for used parts, so I am hoping you will advise me. This may help me determine whether to sell it for less whole, or part it out.

By the bye, the parts are not for sale just yet. I still want to run it at Road America in October, one more time, just to see if I can hit 156 mph. Then she will go up.

Rich

 

[1993eclipseGS]

Your going to sell the motor for 3500 with all those parts included???????

 

[Slow old poop]

Your going to sell the motor for 3500 with all those parts included???????

It's priced a little low, I take it?

 

[underradar92]

Heck, even your part out list barely cracks $10,000.00. Not a big downpayment on a working, reliable, fun track-day beast. You've mentioned that you were having more fun in a near stock 3000TT. Nice idea, but we all know it never ends with "near stock", and those are uber-bank to mod and maintain.

I don't know what it'd take to make that Eclipse into a low maintenence, reliable car for a full season, but I'd try that option. I realize that may push your crew over the edge, however.

Low maintenence DSM... It must be possible.