Toasted ECU?

[UnluckyGSX]

Hi I'm kinda new, but I've been lurking around for about a month and a half.

Well tonight I was driving to my girlfriends house when my car just up and died. No sputtering, no popping, no explosions.. however the inside of the car smelled strongly of electrical fire. I've gone over everything and I can't see anything wrong on the surface. Since we only smelled it inside the car and not under the hood I'm thinking it's the ECU and from other posts I've read that seems to fit. I just kinda want to get a second opinion. Any help you can give is greatly appreciated.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by UnluckyGSX
I'm thinking it's the ECU and from other posts I've read that seems to fit.

You didn't mention if the car is running or not?

You have to have valve timing, spark and fuel to make it run. Which one is missing?

Cheers,
GTM

 

[UnluckyGSX]

It's not running. When I try to start it the engine turns over but there's no spark. I haven't been able to check for anything else since it happened pretty late and I just had it towed to my house.

 

[mitsutuner]

Bummer dude!, 100% postive you have a toasted ECU.
It's easy to swap out, finding a good ecu is the problem.

I'm in the same boat. Sunrise auto dismantling in Ranch Cordova has them rebuilt & warranty for $225, assuming your ecu is a good core--rebuildable by them--if the microproccessor chip on your ecu is toasted,(sounds like it is)--then your core is no good, add $200 to the $225=$425. Sunrise 1-800-557-8674, no. I don't work there.
My car is 1991 tsi awd automatic, can't afford the ecu, doing some more searching, email me if you find a better deal. I didn't search for new ecu, but my hunch is $650-$900.
I mailed mine off to ZDR electronics in MIami FL. & for a $50 diagnostic charge, they told me it would be $386 total to replace my board, so that's on hold while I search--all you dsmers that have gone down this road, jump in any time now & describe your ecu fix.
gregorio
[email protected]

 

[UnluckyGSX]

Wow.. that's great. I guess it's time to head down to the junk yard to try to find an ECU...

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by mitsutuner
Bummer dude!, 100% postive you have a toasted ECU.
It's easy to swap out, finding a good ecu is the problem.
...
so that's on hold while I search--all you dsmers that have gone down this road, jump in any time now & describe your ecu fix.
gregorio
[email protected]

Not seen one of these go up in smoke, that's only from lack of this unique experience. Are there no tests to isolate for certain this is his problem before he has to sacrifice his first born child?

Cheers,
GTM

 

[mitsutuner]

slim chance on the junkyard, ecu's are very model year & configuration specific-,but the same for eclipse/talon/galant of same year & confuration.-see the 1000faq webpage, but go anyway & good luck, I will be doing the same--let me know if you see 1 for 91 awd/automatic, 90 is different part #, write down your actual part# before you go, mine is MD165532. I'll look for your car as well. last time I was there (pic-n-pull in fremont), there were 13 eclipse/talons & zero ecu's, they go quickly & I think some sharp guys get them all & sell them to places that buy re-usable cores.

 

[mitsutuner]

At zdr electronis they plug in your ecu & can tell you if you have another contributing issue on the car. They told me I should strongly consider replacing idle speed control motor. ( to be truthfull, I'm down $75 on the shipping & diagnostic charge & possibly not any closer to having a running car) At the 100faq webpage they say the ecu problem might just be leaking capacitors & these can be cheaply replaced-& I tend to believe this sometimes happens--but at the ecu rebuild website, (bba-reman.com), they say they rarely find 1 that has only capacitor problems, bec. when the caps are going bad, it damages other things on the board--too high voltages getting in(the caps are voltage spike dampeners for voltages that go to the processor) & heat. So why don't they put cooling fans on these things????Your computer you are using right now probably costs a third as much & IT most likely has a cooling fan. On my ecu board, I could see that the center of the microprocessor chip had shiny softened, previously melted plast/rubber goo.
In my case, the problem occurred after driving the car for awhile with the defrost on & high heat--but the heater fan was off--I'm thinking this put a lot of heat right on the ecu. (on Hondas & some other cars, they mount the ecu under the passenger seat, which is a cooler location,(but susceptible to flood damage.)
Adding to the scarcity issue, supposedly the 1st gen ecus offer better performance & on board diagnostis than the 2g ecu's, so auto shops like prostreetonline.com build adapter wiring harnesses to fit 1g ecu's into 2g cars.
a wealth on ecu info found via google search, but so far no real low cost options. Lot's of places that offer to rebuild your ecu for $150-$225, assuming the microprocessor is NOT cooked & they are being honest--it MIGHT happen that way. The junkyard could be helpfull if you just happened to be there the day of or the day after the car was towed in.
In the meantime, my talon, dead in the garage, I'm driving my buddy's 94 Mustang GT, 5.0/302 V-8, & I'm liking it more everyday.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by mitsutuner
slim chance on the junkyard,
...

last time I was there (pic-n-pull in fremont), there were 13 eclipse/talons & zero ecu's, they go quickly & I think some sharp guys get them all & sell them to places that buy re-usable cores.

It's not just the sharp guys visiting these Pick your parts yards. It's the yard managment that pull them from the drivers. If the car starts, runs, charges, and doesn't smoke you will never see those parts, their crew pulls them. They will sell them through other contacts. If it comes on the hook or a wreck you might have a chance, but I think these sharp guys are giving a kick back to the tow drivers to tell them what cars they are going to pick up that day. A couple of the yards down here have another yard where they keep the "newer" cars but you have to pay $5 instead of $2 but I've noticed these cars have not been gone through by the pros. It stinks but what can you do except try and beat them to it or start slipping someone $$ to watch for you.

I see no reason to not put a CPU fan and maybe even a heat sink, you got the 12v. It use to be early brain boxes were cast aluminum housings with cooling fins.

A state of the art mother board can be had for $79 and a ECU has to cost $300-$500, somebody's getting ripped off.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[UnluckyGSX]

So yeah.. my ECU is fried. The cap closest to where the ECU plugs into the car leaked all over the place. Underneath the cap it looks like it caught on fire or exploded or something, there's like a 2 inch char mark on the underside of the board. The case has a big black char mark on it too. Everything else on the board looks peachy..

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by UnluckyGSX
So yeah.. my ECU is fried. The cap closest to where the ECU plugs into the car leaked all over the place. Underneath the cap it looks like it caught on fire or exploded or something, there's like a 2 inch char mark on the underside of the board. The case has a big black char mark on it too. Everything else on the board looks peachy..

Super in a way, read the vfaq instructions on repair. If you have a dead computer power supply lying around you could check in there for the right value caps, dead radios etc. may have them also as a temporary or permanent fix.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[UnluckyGSX]

Nah, I think it's dead. The area underneath the cap on the underside of the board is like.. melted..

 

[mitsutuner]

TOASTED! I did not make it to the junkyard today, don't care to go there when it's muddy & under water. I did put out some parts & price quotes on a handfull of websites.
So far, the best deal I found on the CPU was at ZDR Electronics in Orlando, Florida--they said they could replace the board for $386 total, including the diagnostic charge, which they already did on it--I mailed it to them last Monday & they are patiently awaiting my decision to fix it or send it back to me as is or throw it away--I would get some satisfaction from taking a sledge hammer to it.
Here is the link for ZDR
http://www.mitsubishiecu.com/

I still need to post part wanted ads on dsmtrader.com

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by UnluckyGSX
Nah, I think it's dead. The area underneath the cap on the underside of the board is like.. melted..

Yuck! GMRO

You might be right. You could use a small brass wire brush a little rubbing alcohol and see how bad it really is. Might need an eye loupe for the traces. It took a pretty good hit so the shock of major colapse of electrical circuit might have taken out other parts as well. Still could be a backup after you fix the obvious.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[mitsutuner]

Nah, way too much collateral damage on the board. the ECU in the foto is fubar, (fouled up beyond all repair- expletive deleted version). The officail military designation is NRTS, pronounced "nerts", which stands for "not repairable this station".
you are not going to have a board that will run your car without replacing the processor chip in addition to doing other extensive board repair & component replacement- not just the caps, which is best done by a very well equiped electronics shop.
You are going to have to pony up for a replacement unit, same as me & it's especially annoying--I had just purchased & installed new KYB's on the back the very day before my CPU fried! I had also bought a new denso O2 sensor that I was going to install on the very day it died.
(starting to sound like an old Don McClean song--the day the mitsu died)
It helps to keep a good sense of humor to own this car, but it might make you feel a little better if you browse thru the 1000faq webpage & read about the few other problems these cars tend to have, that have not actually happened toyour car yet. Then, when it does happen, you'll recognize the problem symptoms right away. This will also give you a good idea of where you are in your constant mitsu restoration project.
Not being cynical, the facts speak for themselves- just trying to inject a little reality check humor into the equation before I start the paperwork on my 2nd mortgage so I can keep my talon running. keep smiling!

 

[UnluckyGSX]

I just dumped $450 into mine and it died a week later. I think I found a replacement ECU for a decent price though . I bought this car because I wanted a project car so I guess I can't really complain. I just wish I could have spent the money on performance parts instead of broken crap. I still have to replace my two front struts too, maybe someone will buy me some for Christmas

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by mitsutuner

...
It helps to keep a good sense of humor to own this car, ...

You mean, if you can't take a joke you shouldn't have bought one OR Lovely cars, just hard to get use to.

My son and I go to get groceries this afternoon. We get to stop sign at end of block, woops no oil pressure. Open door, look under car puddle of oil... s..t! Open hood, see arcing, push car to curb, get blanket crawl under car and find Alt B+ wire has worn through insulation, worn through paint on oil filter and burned hole right through the shell.

Lovely cars, just hard to get use to.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[mitsutuner]

Yeah, I hear what you're saying, I enjoy working in the garage. I had similar aspirations 15 months ago when I bought this one for $1700 with 137k miles on it. This car turned into a fulltime job of wrenching & chasing down parts & rare mechanics that understand how mitsu cars are "special". Average mechanics can cause a lot of collateral damage under the hood, I had to learn that the hard way. The dsm websites including this 1 have been very helpfull & I have the ultimate respect for all the owner/mechanics that contribute knowledge to these websites.
Later, I realized that what I had was unreliable transportation at very unreasonble cost- over $4000 so far & still gotta pony up for an ECU.
Yeah, still didn't get beyond the maintenance & on to the performance mods--it would be pointless to get full turbo boost going before the engine & suspension get sorted out--you could fry the motor in a heartbeat. At the pic-n-pull junkyard here, most of the dsms have fried motors & minimal or no body damage. Incredibly, most of the fried motor cars have rusty water for engine coolant in the overflow bottle!!
It's sad to take a closer look at the cars & see how much $ the owner had recently invested.
I'm considering paying someone to take this project car off my hands, because it's hard to sell a car that's not running. I think giving it away will save me a lot of $ & aggaravation in the long run.

 

[mitsutuner]

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on near the alternater, as long as you are down there, you might be wise to go ahead & drain the radiator & replace the 2 short rubber coolant hoses that go to the oil cooler that your oil filter screws into because you can only do this while the oil filter is removed.
Moving to the front of the alternater, slice 1 side of the leftover piece of coolant hose that you have & use it to wrap around the power steering pump wire bundle where it is metal clamped to the power steering pump mounting bracket.
AND, while you are there, you might as well go ahead & unbolt the power steering pump hose fitting at the pump & install a rubber garden hose washer into the fitting because it will start leaking soon if it's not already & drool power steering fluid down inside your alternater.
PLUS, you should'nt be too surprised if you find out the voltage regulater inside your alternater has stopped regulating.
THEN LATER, You'll find out soon enough if the sparking wires fried your ECU caps or worse.
This is car is non-stop mitsu mis-engineering comedy, gauranteed to keep a smile on your face, & your face in front of the dsm repair webpages & manuals. It's either laugh & wrench or learn how to do tie-dye & ride the bus.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by mitsutuner


Yeah, I hear what you're saying, I enjoy working in the garage. I had similar aspirations 15 months ago when I bought this one for $1700 with 137k miles on it. This car turned into a fulltime job of wrenching & chasing down parts & rare mechanics that understand how mitsu cars are "special". Average mechanics can cause a lot of collateral damage under the hood, I had to learn that the hard way. The dsm websites including this 1 have been very helpfull & I have the ultimate respect for all the owner/mechanics that contribute knowledge to these websites.
Later, I realized that what I had was unreliable transportation at very unreasonble cost- over $4000 so far & still gotta pony up for an ECU.
Yeah, still didn't get beyond the maintenance & on to the performance mods--it would be pointless to get full turbo boost going before the engine & suspension get sorted out--you could fry the motor in a heartbeat. At the pic-n-pull junkyard here, most of the dsms have fried motors & minimal or no body damage. Incredibly, most of the fried motor cars have rusty water for engine coolant in the overflow bottle!!
It's sad to take a closer look at the cars & see how much $ the owner had recently invested.
I'm considering paying someone to take this project car off my hands, because it's hard to sell a car that's not running. I think giving it away will save me a lot of $ & aggaravation in the long run.

It hurts to read storries like that. With 20/20 hind sight you migh have been better off looking for a running wreck, pulling all the goodies off and calling the city for an abandoned wreck in front of the house.

Some cars will nickle and dime you to death like a 3.4 Jag I once had. Everytime you turned around it was something else.

The reality is the cars get driven (and driven hard), they frequently go without maintenance and competent mechanics (and owners). It's not the car for a single mother who needs transportation, it's a fun car that likes to be driven. With the exception of a couple of my Lancias this rates right up there. But they never had these problems, just awkward to get parts out of Italy.

Not running it's $500-$1000 ?? but do you cut your losses or invest another $400 in the ECU only to have something else rob your pocketbook. I've fallen out of bed a time or so in my life but never to these sums not even $500. I never get the hots for a car except a matched set of coupe and convertable Bertoni Bat series Abarths for $600, today's $ maybe 1/4 mil.

Wish I knew how to ease the pain or achieve some logical conclusion. Buy right, be patient. Use Recycler.com and be prepared to get their first.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[mitsutuner]

Running-wreck just about sums up my mitsu experience, & I'm guessing that's why the dealers are practically giving away the new ones--but for the love of humanity I hold out a glimmer of hope that the new ones are made a little bit better.
I've put over 1 million miles on 35 cars in 33 years, but done more repair work on my talon in 10,000 miles from 137k-147k, than on all the other cars combined. The facts speak for themselves & I have every receipt on this car since it was new, in a large folder. (but to be fair, I never had a fiat or a yugo, but I did have a 76 jag xj6)
Next trip to the auto parts store, notice that the mitsu repair manual is much bigger than those for other cars & I can tell you from experience, the mitsu manual is still woefully incomplete- I have 5 large folders of parts & repair webpages that I downloaded & printed.
I have a metal cabinet filled with spare mitsu parts & fasteners that I hoarded from the junkyard, because after awhile you start to get paranoid/non-delusional!
On this website, I dare not say which car I had that was by far the most reliable & fun to drive, having put 227k miles on it, but the name starts with H & ends with A. Be aware that the moderater can terminate this thread at any time. Keep smiling!

 

[UnluckyGSX]

Woah woah.. my PS pump is leaking, what's this about sparking wires frying ECU caps Explain please.

 

[mitsutuner]

When your B+ wire shorts to ground, your alt & batt voltage drop towards zero & the when it's not sparking your voltage jumps back up to around 16, possibly surging higher. (similar to what happens if you reverse the battery jumper cables by mistake) You must have had hundreds if not millions of sparks before they eventually burned thru the oil filter case. The ecu caps dampen these voltage spikes before they damage your micro-chip in the ecu. The electrolytic caps are only going to take so much abuse & will only last for so long even under normal circumstances. At some point, the dielectric chemicals leak out of the caps & do collateral damage like in the ecu photo in the previous post.
You could take out the ecu & look at the board with a lens to check for damage, but in the absence of ecu failure symptoms, (ecu chatter, burning smell, car cuts out or won't start but sounds like it's almost hitting on 1 or 2 cylinders)-- you might be ok--keep your fingers crossed & leave your lucky rabbits foot near the car stereo.

 

[mitsutuner]

The diode rectifiers in the voltage regulater inside your alternater are susceptible to damage similar but not identical to the ecu caps in the scenario previously described. While diodes are generally more durable than caps, at some point they will fail, but not leak chemicals & yes, they are made by mitsubishi unless you have a rebuilt alt. & even then they probably still are.
If your coolant hoses to the oil cooler blow, your coolant is gone in a flash & your motor is overheating--givng all kinds of warning signs that you & I would recognise, so we would know to shut the car down at once to save it. If the hose blows while your honey is driving on the freeway on a hot day, going to the far-away mall to look at shoes, then waiting for a tow truck is not a considered option>>toasted motor.
Personally, I think it's bad engineering to have the coolant running all over the engine bay, since it's a mission critical fluid----but when you start looking around, you'll find 8-10 short rubber hoses & 2 big rubber hoses that circulate coolant.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by mitsutuner
When your B+ wire shorts to ground, your alt & batt voltage drop towards zero & the when it's not sparking your voltage jumps back up to around 16, possibly surging higher.
...
The ecu caps dampen these voltage spikes before they damage your micro-chip in the ecu.
...

It may not be quite that grim for it sees the battery first which will smooth out a lot of the hash and spikes before it runs back through the fuses and relays to the ECU.

I've not looked inside one of these, only pictures but chances are the electrolitics are heavy draw (comparatively speaking) items not for the chip.

Cheers,
GTM







some of those caps