Fuel Problem? NEED HELP/IDEAS!

[Grant]

Okay, I know what you're thinking. Not another stupid newbie thread, where they coulda just searched and found out the answer from another forum! But I have searched, and I don't think I've found anyone who has quite the same problem that I do.

My car will only start with the aid of starting fluid. The only time it will occasionally start by itself is if its warm(and I get lucky) but most of the time, it still wont start.
This leads me to conclude that the car is too lean at start up.

Once the car is running, it sounds super rough, and doesn't like to idle very well. With the throttle completely floored, it would bog at first, then slowly rev its way up to about 4k or so, then hesitate again, and finally make its way to 5.5k or so a bit quicker after the pause. After sustained run time, 10 min. or so, my garage is full of pale blue smoke, and reeks of gas

The only mods I have on my car are: Walbro 255lph, Megan Racing afpr (which in hindsight seems like a bad choice) and 272's.

The timing is on,(at least the fixed belt timing) and Ive gone through the manual and performed tests. The maf, iat, tps, and cas are all working. the sensors are acting the way there supposed too, although I guess i could be wrong about the maf, but a different maf from my brothers running talon didn't make a difference, so I'm counting that out. I've perfomed a boost leak test, and stopped the leaks around my throttle body. It holds pressure then slowly bleeds out(im assuming thats a result of a partially open valve from the 272's). My interior gauges work, so im assuming my coolant temp sensor is working.
I've pulled the ecu,and nothings corroded or leaking, and the car acted the same with a different one in it
I've got new plugs an wires, and spark is there, so that leads me to a fuel issue?

I have no way of knowing what the fuel pressure was at when just the walbro was on. The car came with it in the fuel pump installed and the motor blown up. The only idea that comes to mind, is that maybe with the fuel pressure too high, some of the injectors got damaged?

I guess what I'm wondering if anyone had any problems like this or any ideas to try, or something else to test? I'm at my wit's end and don't really know what could be wrong anymore!

Any help would be appreciated!

 

[LunarEclips]

what kind of turbo are you running?? what kind of fuel management?? If you're stock turbo and stock setup, why are you running a walbro 255 on simple 272's?? What does the FPR read?? Pics of how the FPR is installed would help as well....i just have a hint of a solution but i need more info on you're behalf.

 

[Grant]

It's still got the stock turbo and other than adjustable fpr, no engine management other than the stock ecu. The only reason that I'm running the walbro is that all the bolts holding it in the gas tank are so rusty that I really didn't feel like breaking them all off and then having to figure out a new way to get the metal plate to stay on. The fpr is installed with the pressure feed going into the side and then to the return out the bottom. I currently have the vacuum line hooked into the stock fpr "solenoid" that's mounted on the firewall, and then into the intake manifold. I can play with the fuel pressure, but it doesn't seem to make that much of a difference, but seems to run the "best" at 40 psi or so, even though stock pressure is 32-35 right?

 

[Grant]

okay, here is a couple of pics of my fuel pressure regulator setup. You can see that I'm still using the stock lines, and where the vacuum line is hooked into the stock (solenoid) i think?

 

[Grant]

Okay, well I've got an idea to test out my injectors, and maybe end up swapping some out with my brothers running talon, so we'll see how that goes tomorrow.

Nobody has any ideas as to what this might be?

 

[LunarEclips]

did you just put that fpr on? can you get a close up pic of the fp sensor??

 

[LunarEclips]

i think im about to win the medal....here's a link i found when doing some research for my problem...


http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/problem-diagnosis/293275-fuel-injectors-not-pulsing.html

and my solution: try swapping the power transistor from your brothers tsi....

 

[Grant]

Okay, so i at first thought by injector resistor you meant the power transistor for the coil pack. Swapped that out, no difference. Skip forward a few hours. Dad arrives home. Informed of symtoms and believed solution. Dad searches through dsm electrical manual and arrives at new conclusion and couple of things to test.

My injector resistor is fine. The resistance readouts are stable and very consistant. There is voltage there and the wires look fine. Then I thought maybe the injectors were plugged. They too are getting proper voltage, and the spare injector we had sittn around clicks properly.

I then took the fuel rail loose and manually turned the cas. The injectors fire properly as well. I had them spraying into a crappy seat cover for a rag. After it was established that the injectors were properly firing, the rag had a good bit of gas in it.

brilliant idea to decide to light the rag, just for kicks (in a safe well ventilated area). After lighting cigarette, i tried to light the rag with my trusty bic. Only after concentrated heat was applied to directly soaked area of the rag did it finally light on fire. The rag then slowly ignited fully, and proceded to burn for a good 5-10 minutes.

Then (while the rag was burning) pulled an injector from the fuel rail and activated the key. Took the gas that was pouring into a cup and then proceeded to sploosh it on the burning rag. Gas made a minor flare up, and then proceeded to burn on the ground a couple minutes after the rag was totally burned up.

So, for me, this raises one freaking huge possibility in my mind. My project car has sat around for about 2 years or so, and it had a half a tank of gas in it when I got it. I tryed to get as much as possible out of it, and then poured in whatever fuel additives around that I could find. I think theres a full container of HEET, Fuel injector cleaner, and maybe even seafoam in it. I did notice that the gas smelled a little wierd, and my dad remarked on the smell of alcohol being there....... Guess I didn't get enough of the crap out!

So, next test is to see if I can pump out as much as possible, more than the previous try, and then add a couple of gallons of fresh 89, (for quicker burn) and see how much better she runs. If this solves the problem, awesome. If not, then I belive following the walkthrough for removing the gas tank is in order

Thanks for all the help LunarEclipse, thanks to you, I have a much greater understanding of the DSM way of controlling both fuel and spark. I owe ya!

 

[Grant]

Okay, so most of the bad gas is gone. Fresh fuel has been added.
The car seems to run a bit better. But now, it seems like it has ignition problems. So, after swapping both plugs and wires out of my brothers car, it seems to run a bit better, and will start easily when its warmed up.
My coolant gauge has been going crazy, and will sweep from cold to hot, and then back. I'm assuming that this is probably a bad connection or sensor, and will help a bit with the cold start.
I went and got fresh plugs and wires and now car seems to run halfway decently, but still bogs at about 3000 rpm or so, but with less hesitation than before.

I did notice that the hole in the valve cover where the pcv should go(its been temporarily removed) had milky white oil coming out of it at times. There is also a significant amount of blowby right now, as the hole seems to shoot air out of it under revs.

So, just went to autozone, will perform compression test, and see what thats at.

Really not looking forward to replacing the head gasket, but I guess we'll see.

 

[BADMF]

that sucks

 

[Detective Coating]

Check to make sure your coolant temp sensor at the T-stat is connected well or it will jump around like that and will tell the ECU different things. I know with mine it runs like shit when its cold and have to let it warm up for 10 minutes since it started getting cold. I had a problem with my sensor not being connected before and my tune seemed to completely disappear but all it took was connecting that back up.

To the guy above, NO SHIT!

 

[Grant]

Okay, so the compression seems okay. All the cylinders are within a psi or two of 130. Adding oil to the cylinder didn't raise the compression, so the rings must be okay.

I guess the next part to test out would be the coolant temp sensor. I think I'll do the hot water test, and see if the resistance is really high, and make sure that the wires are actually connected, maybe this will be the clue to the stupid puzzle.

I was also thinking of swapping out my brothers talons ecu and seeing how that runs. Does anyone think this is worth the extra 5 min?

 

[Grant]

Okay, so now the coolant temp sensor is working, as well as the coolant temp switch. I had them hooked up earlier, but when i pulled out the wiring harness, they came undone. Guess I didn't have them connected real well.....

So now the car wants to start, it seems like the car is dumping in too much gas, it kinda acts like its flooded, and my plugs are just soaked in gas.

I swapped out the coil pack, my power transistor, and that didn't change anything.

So I did another boost leak test, and there is just tons of air going out of the pcv hole. This leads me to the conclusion that my valve stem seals are bad, but I'm not entirely sure why this would make my car run like crap.....

 

[No_Skillz]

Plugs and wires - NGK BPR7ES and a decent set of wires.

Drain the crappy 89 and put in 1/2 tank of 93.

AFPR needs to be set at 43.5 PSI with all vacuum hoses off. Disconnect all hoses going to the stock FPS. It should be plugged in electrically only. Attach vacuum hose from AFPR to intake manifold. Pressure should now read ~35-36.

Get your PCV system in working order.

 

[Grant]

Okay, tried setting the fpr like you suggested, no change. Then I went through the wiring diagrams again, as I was getting no voltage to the injectors, or anything else that takes power of the main mpi relay by the ecu. I checked the pins, and had a bad connection between the ecu and the relay, so i tore the wiring harness looms apart to investigate the connections, and lo and behold, suddenly i had voltage to the ecu! So i plugged it all back up, and tryed to start her up, and she sounded like it was running on only about a cylinder and a half. I check the plugs, which were all wet, dried them off, and then the car seemed to kinda run a bit better, but only on 2 and sometimes 3 cylinders. This confused me, and finally i did another compression test.

Cylinder #1 had about 130, so it stayed the same
#2 had a big FAT 0
#3 had about 95 or so
and#4 was real close to 130 or so.

I thought that maybe i wasn't getting the compression tester to seal, and so i worked my way back down the cylinders, and had the same results.

So then i talked to my dad a bit, and he said pull the valve cover, and check for a stuck valve.
So i pulled that, and all the valves are moving like there supposed to,

Now engine is about ready to be removed for complete rebuild. I got the engine with the short block already assembled, and so i don't really know if it's been put together correctly, but now i have the chance to make sure that it's been done right!

Further reflection lead me to think about the zero compression. If the rings were completely shot, that means that any air thats been compressed would immediately blow bast and up to the head and out the pcv.

If i had a bent valve, i woulda heard air leaving into the exhaust manifold, so hopefully my valvetrain is intact, as head work costs mucho $!

 

[Grant]

I really appreciate all the help and replys! Thanks alot guys!

I don't know what I'd do without tuners