[RESOLVED] Piston hitting spark Plugs

Streetsweeper21 · 02-27-2008, 04:18 PM

Hey watz up? I jus installed a t3/t4 setup in my car and its running like crap. The blow off valve you cant even hear any more and its not boosting past 5psi. When I went to check my spark plugs I found 2 spark plugs that were pushed in from the pistons. Two of the spark plugs had no gap whatsoever

. Before that I tried to do a boost leak test and I couldnt get the boost gauge to even budge. I dont know what is happening I never took my car to a shop and not really trying to now. What could cause the piston to hit the spark plugs? Thanks alot

blueninteytwo · 02-27-2008, 04:55 PM

the piston seperating from the crankshaft somehow.... that's the only way I know that they would touch.... i don't know of the valves interfering...

i would run a compression test and if that really happened it doesn't sound good....

Black95awd · 02-27-2008, 05:21 PM

please excuse the poorly drawn diagram, but as you can see there is no way (unless your piston is in pieces) that it will hit the plug. it may be out of time and hitting valves. If this is the case then you will have to replace valves because they will be bent. on a side note, if you type like a grown up not a drunk 12 year old it will be easier to comprehend your issue and more people may be inclined to help you. edit: this diagram depicts the piston at TDC.

1sic1G · 02-27-2008, 05:32 PM

Um... Just a question. Why would the timing have anything to do with the pistion hitting the sparkplugs?.................. I'll answer that!!! It wouldn't...... The probable problem is detonation, If in fact all he did was a new turbo.

crimsondragon · 02-27-2008, 07:36 PM

Play nice kids. Regap the plugs to .28 and fire her up again to see if anything changes. I can't imagine pistons hitting the spark plugs. If you want, regap them and reinstall them, then turn the crank by hand clockwise and see if it gets stuck TDC.

marioortiz69 · 02-27-2008, 07:45 PM

I had the same problem so i took the head off and one of my valves was broken off and bouncing around in the cylinder. it would only hit the plug sometimes.

1sic1G · 02-27-2008, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by Black95awd
please excuse the poorly drawn diagram, but as you can see there is no way (unless your piston is in pieces) that it will hit the plug. it may be out of time and hitting valves.

Just an Fyi... this is where you said it could be timing.

JeffGST · 02-27-2008, 10:41 PM

When a timing belt slips, it can easily take out a valve and leave it sitting on top of the piston. Then on the next rotation, the piston(s) has a nice sized foreign object to force right into the spark plug.

ASK ME HOW I KNOW?

Streetsweeper21 · 02-28-2008, 01:57 AM

Thanks to all of you who responded I couldnt find this in the searches. JeffGST that looks insane, but I doubt my valves are messed up because im not smoking at all. Im going to do a compression test and regap the plugs before I put new ones in. Someone also told me could be from over reving which I never really do so I guess detonation To Black95awd im not going to even say what I want to you so I can get banned.

mach4g63t · 02-28-2008, 06:18 AM

It would help if you could update your profile properly. I doubt you're running a t3/t4 in combination with a 16g. Doesn't make sense. Start by updating that to the current modlist of the car.

Also, if the boost gauge isn't moving... do the obvious... fix the boost leak. Hunt it down coupler by coupler, because to agree with the aforementioned detonation, you probably have a huge boost leak and your engine was detonating. That won't exactly bode well for spark plugs or your engine.

Also, when you're driving your car... what is it doing? Is it accelerating poorly with black smoke? Is it stuttering at low speeds and while beginning to build boost? A sure sign of detonation is a very erratic stutter in the exhaust note. It's unmistakable if you're heard it once.

bastard dsm · 02-28-2008, 09:00 AM

well it sounds like detonation prob. to me also,check the plugs for piston
trace.I see a engine rebuild in the near future.

freshlane · 02-28-2008, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bastard dsm

well it sounds like detonation prob. to me also,check the plugs for piston
trace.I see a engine rebuild in the near future.

+1 on detonation. Check timing.

viperlp01 · 02-28-2008, 12:56 PM

Why are you asking for help if you are going to act like that. It is clearly detontaion and if you read any hanes or a spark plug book at your local parts store it would point to it. period. Close this thread.

Streetsweeper21 · 02-28-2008, 10:31 PM

Okay so far change the plugs and there not being hit as of now. But I cant past 5psi and the turbo is really not spooling at all and my blow off valve is not making any noise I checked all my couplings and they are good I tried a boost leak test and the gauge is not even budging!

Also I still have my 550 cc in there but not tryin to boost alot with them jus trying to get the car to run okay first. Would having these injectors make the car not blow off and not past 5psi even my automatic turbo I put on temporarliy was blowing off even on 1psi. Also does having a HP 1.4 Bar (20.30) Tial Spring the cause?

MidShipCivic · 02-29-2008, 01:09 AM

Your timing went off, so now have fun rebuilding your engine. I bet when you try to crank it again you will lock the engine.

el guapo · 02-29-2008, 02:57 AM

pull your valve cover off and see if its still all together in there. i think your plugs being smashed was just poor installation or maybe some crazy wrong plug. what kind did you have in there.

Streetsweeper21 · 02-29-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidShipCivic

Your timing went off, so now have fun rebuilding your engine. I bet when you try to crank it again you will lock the engine.

Your talkin pretty wreckless there is no way my timing went off jus from me installing a turbo. I cranked it a more than 20 times already and nothin is locking so I dont know about that buddy.

ArticNemesis · 02-29-2008, 10:21 AM

Pull the timing belt cover, and make sure the engine is in time, and the belt is still functional for starters.

If you did a boost leak test, and the gauge didn't budge, then you have a boost leak somewhere. Whether it been from a IM gasket, TB gasket, coupler, cracked IC, Bent valves, it's massively leaking somewhere. Fix that, then post back.

Streetsweeper21 · 02-29-2008, 11:59 AM

Thanks for the respond. I changed the Pcv valve and I did a boost leak test with an air compressor and the boost gauge did nothin at all. At idle the gauge goes crazy at reads 0 and 1psi than when the car is warm it reads -10 vac. When I tried to make a pull it only would boost 5psi. This is really Pissing me off cause it feels like I jus spent a Thousand and some change for nothing. Next stop is the shop which I Hate wit a Passion. Ill take off the valve cover I guess next and see whats going on in there how could I tell if the valve is bent.

Streetsweeper21 · 02-29-2008, 11:59 AM

Tell me why I ordered a Tial wastegate from "sbr" with a 1.4 Hp bar spring(20.30) I look at the box i says .9 Bar pressure so that would mean they gave me the wrong spring and it would only boost 13.05 psi, but it wont boost past 8psi barley 5psi. Im currently not running a Mbc Jus a line to the wastegate and to the compressor housing.

Even if it was the valves or timing that should have nothing to do with me not getting any reading from my boost gauge during a boost leak test because the engine is off and im only pressurizing the turbo right or wrong??? Would I have to put the motor TDC just to a boost leak test.

Also my turbo boost 5-8 psi while the car is running but I cant get it to do anythin with the car off.
_________________

MidShipCivic · 02-29-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streetsweeper21

Your talkin pretty wreckless there is no way my timing went off jus from me installing a turbo. I cranked it a more than 20 times already and nothin is locking so I dont know about that buddy.

No one said that in the first place. '' turbo install made the engine off timing ''

You should stop trying to drive your car and go over the timing belt.

Quote:

Ill take off the valve cover I guess next and see whats going on in there how could I tell if the valve is bent.

You cannot take off your valve cover to check for bent valves.

marioortiz69 · 02-29-2008, 06:24 PM

Try to stick a pen magnet in each cylinder and see if you pull anything up. I had my valves break off and my car ran for 2 months with only 14 valves. It ran fine! Probably not good for the rest of the engine but it worked.

mach4g63t · 03-01-2008, 06:59 AM

I'm telling you, you have a serious boost leak somewhere. When I installed my FMIC I had a boost leak on the coupler off the hot side of my turbo. The clamp closest to the intercooler on my coupling was freely moveable by hand when I removed the intercooler fro mthe car and the clamp was all the way down. I was getting the EXACT same issues you are. 0 boost on a boost leak test, no more than 5 psi while driving and no power from the car. I would bet money your little turbo is screaming it's throat out just trying to get 5 psi into that damn thing too.

Stop being a pansy, pull all of your piping/hosing off and redo it piece by piece. Once you have done that and are certain there cannot beat a leak from holes, loose couplers, clamps etc... do a boost leak. If you still have nothing, get a spay bottle of some 409 or some soapy water and have someone spray it around your Throttle body gasket and while you do a boost leak test to see if you get foamy bubbles. Do this EVERYWHERE you can imagine you might have a boost leak and I bet you'll hunt that thing down in a matter of minutes.

If you're reading no boost on the gauge, it's leaking somewhere, so all you have to do is have someone continuously pump air into the system until you find it because if you're not building boost you're not going to risk blowing a coupler/pipe. You'll get it, and you'll be a lot happier that you didn't send it to a shop over something simple.

And as for the reason your BOV probably isn't venting. . . Well, if you have a boost leak, then why does your BOV need to open to release the air once the throttle is closed? It doesn't. Any guesses why? My bov didn't open either when I had a massive boost leak. Also, you might want to check your spring rates. I have a few buddies who are using/going to be using Tial's and I think they said that it's recommended that you use a 7lb spring for a lightly modified car. I would definitely double-check your spring though.

FIND THE BOOST LEAK, DANIEL-SON! Goodluck.

Epic904 · 03-01-2008, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streetsweeper21

Thanks for the respond. I changed the Pcv valve and I did a boost leak test with an air compressor and the boost gauge did nothin at all. At idle the gauge goes crazy at reads 0 and 1psi than when the car is warm it reads -10 vac. When I tried to make a pull it only would boost 5psi. This is really Pissing me off cause it feels like I jus spent a Thousand and some change for nothing. Next stop is the shop which I Hate wit a Passion. Ill take off the valve cover I guess next and see whats going on in there how could I tell if the valve is bent.

Your saying at idle it is going crazy and only has -10 in/hg? for vacuum. I would say that is a definate boost/ vacuum leak that you need to fix. The car should be at idle with 16-18 in/hg. Driving your car like that will cause you to break other things especially if your detonating the motor.

Streetsweeper21 · 03-01-2008, 08:34 AM

My vaccum use to be 18 when i was stock after I upgraded the turbo a long time ago always stayed around 10. My oil pressure gauge was goin really high now going low when I dont rev it after a while, also my coolant temp was going crazy now it seems normal. My alternator did touch the frame when I didnt uplug the batterty and caused a huge spark you think the ecu could be damaged?

mach4g63t · 03-01-2008, 09:02 AM

If you have aftermarket gauges, the oil will remain low unless the engine is being revved or moving under load, because the pump is not being spun. As for the lowered, vacuum, this is generally a result of the engine getting more air outside of the turbo, ie a boost leak. The ECU frying would have nothing to do with what conditions you are describing. Unless you have some sort of electric boost gauge, a mechanical boost gauge takes all it's readings directly from the source of vacuum attached at the base and monitors boost and vacuum mechanically.

Epic904 · 03-01-2008, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streetsweeper21

My vaccum use to be 18 when i was stock after I upgraded the turbo a long time ago always stayed around 10. My oil pressure gauge was goin really high now going low when I dont rev it after a while, also my coolant temp was going crazy now it seems normal. My alternator did touch the frame when I didnt uplug the batterty and caused a huge spark you think the ecu could be damaged?

So it all happened after the turbo install. Basically 10 in/hg means your idle has to be real pour in either a boost leak or even not firing on all cylenders. The oil pressure problem could be something as simple as a bad sending unit, a bad ground, but where do the new turbo draw it's oil from? If you did ground out the postive cable i would check some of the fuses under the hood before pulling out the ecu. The vacuum leak could be the throttle seals as these are 18 year old cars. Also check to make sure the vacuum line to the gauge is good and not leaking. As for the coolant temp. guage going crazy what do you mean by that?

mach4g63t · 03-01-2008, 09:09 AM

One thing you could check is to make sure you have your lines run correctly to and from your FPR. Sometimes it's easy to get the lines botched up in which the vaccum line should feed into. This would cause poor boost conditions also because your engine isn't getting the proper fuel adjustments. This happened to me once on the stock FPRS and it actually created another huge boost leak instead of capping off as a one-way vacuum. You could blatently hear the leak until I switched the vacuum lines around the correct way. Check those too. Check ANYTHING that has a vacuum line. ANYTHING that comes off the throttle body or your intake manifold. Check ANYTHING connect to or stemming from your intake pipe, interooler pipes/hoses, and turbo. Even check the intercooler for some sort of bust or leak.

Streetsweeper21 · 03-01-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marioortiz69

Try to stick a pen magnet in each cylinder and see if you pull anything up. I had my valves break off and my car ran for 2 months with only 14 valves. It ran fine! Probably not good for the rest of the engine but it worked.

I stuck a magnet in each cylinder nothin came out altough my spark plus look pretty black and their brand new

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach4g63t

If you have aftermarket gauges, the oil will remain low unless the engine is being revved or moving under load, because the pump is not being spun. As for the lowered, vacuum, this is generally a result of the engine getting more air outside of the turbo, ie a boost leak. The ECU frying would have nothing to do with what conditions you are describing. Unless you have some sort of electric boost gauge, a mechanical boost gauge takes all it's readings directly from the source of vacuum attached at the base and monitors boost and vacuum mechanically.

I dont have an aftermarket gauge im using the stock gauge but neway I rather fix the boost problem because I could always buy a new oil pump if thats the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epic904

So it all happened after the turbo install. Basically 10 in/hg means your idle has to be real pour in either a boost leak or even not firing on all cylenders. The oil pressure problem could be something as simple as a bad sending unit, a bad ground, but where do the new turbo draw it's oil from? If you did ground out the postive cable i would check some of the fuses under the hood before pulling out the ecu. The vacuum leak could be the throttle seals as these are 18 year old cars. Also check to make sure the vacuum line to the gauge is good and not leaking. As for the coolant temp. guage going crazy what do you mean by that?

Im drawing oil from the oil filter housing. The coolant temp gauge was reading normal than when I reved the engine was flickin up and down fast and the oil gauge was going up and down too. That problem could also wait just thought I should mention it just incase it has anythin to do with what's goin on.

mach4g63t · 03-01-2008, 10:58 AM

t3/t4 turbo with a stock gauge? You are either lying about the turbo setup or have your priorities seriously confused. Even with a 16g a stock boost gauge isn't going to help. With the list of mods you have listed I don't quite understand why you don't have a boost gauge already.

Do yourself a favor and do a lot of reading here