No electrical accessories work unless car is running?

[JayRolla]

I bought a 93TSi shell and through my motor and trans into it. Everything seemed to go nicely but none of the interior lights, headlights, windows or anything will work with the ignition on. But as soon as I start the car and its running everything works fine. All fuses seem to be fine. Thanks.

 

[92Lazer]

Have you checked the wiring that comes from your battery? Sounds like the only thing that's getting power when you're car's not running is the starter itself, and when it's running, your accessories run off of alternator power.

 

[JayRolla]

Yes, everything I believe is hooked up, someone said somehting about making sure the alternator fusible link is ok, but I have no idea how to test that.

 

[xhaust50]

I had pretty much the same thing, and it was the fusible link for the alternator.

 

[1sic1G]

I had pretty much the same thing, and it was the fusible link for the alternator.

Make sure you test your key switch

 

[JayRolla]

Ok well I tested the resistance at the fusible link and its good, didnt know thats all I had to do. Alternator is good, battery is good, all fuses and grounds are good. Its not the key switch because even interior lights dont work and they should work even with the key off.

Someone told me it can be an ecu issue, im going to swap one out and see what that does.

 

[slcorman91]

Sounds like a grounding issue to me. Are you sure there isn't some type of after market alarm on it under the dash?

 

[JayRolla]

Sounds like a grounding issue to me. Are you sure there isn't some type of after market alarm on it under the dash?

Nope nothing under dash, all grounds are good and I even have extras.

 

[steve]

Not possible for the ECU to do this.

Get the electrical FSM and check out the power distribution circuit. looks at what works and what doesn't and which bus they are on. Some circuit are powered from the fuses on the battery terminal, some from before the alternator fuse and the rest after it.

 

[JayRolla]

Nothing at all works when car is not running, and everything works when the car is running. How and where would I check the distribution circuit

 

[steve]

Nothing at all works when car is not running, and everything works when the car is running. How and where would I check the distribution circuit

Obviously something does work when the car isn't running or you wouldn't be able to start the car.

Do you have the schematic in hand?

 

[gravityforce]

I had pretty much the same thing, and it was the fusible link for the alternator.

xhaust50 pegged it, I know because I once had this problem, in a 1g its the 80 amp link for the alternator... dont let looks fool you, the fuse may still be good but has bad contact... that being said disconnect your battery and then remove the 80 amp (1g) fusible link (youll need a 10mm socket for r and r), after you determine that the fuse is not blown inspect all the contacts and clean them if any corrosion is present, reinstall the link making sure the bolts are nice and tight hook up the batt. and you should have your accessories back. Keep us posted.

 

[JayRolla]

I tested the fusible link and it had zero resistance, I even swapped another off a good car for good measure and nothing. Yes you are correct Steve the starter does get power. That would be the only thing that does. Fuel pump doesnt even kick untill the starter kicks, at least I cant hear it.

 

[steve]

The fuel pump isn't designed to run until the starter is cranking the engine. So it shouldn't turn on before then.

Do the four way flashers work?
Does the headlight popup switch work?

 

[JayRolla]

Im running a 93 now so no pop ups. Not one thing will work. No running lights, headlights, dash, seatbelts dont move, no flashers. I cant get anything to work unless she is cranked over. My ABS light is always on. When Im driving and I hit the brakes I can see the lights flash and for a mid second there is a power drop.

Here is what I know
Good alternator, I had tested.
New battery
All fuses good
Fusible link has zero resistance when I tested it
All grounds seem to be good, and I have extras I added.

 

[gravityforce]

I know you checked the link already but do one more thing, wiggle the link around some while somebodys in the car to look out for the interior lights to flash on.
I still feel strongly that your problem stems from the alt fusible link.
Your problem is EXACTLY the same one I had a few months back, at first I wanted to blame the new Viper alarm but started wiggling wires and fuses around thats how I found my problem. I went and bought a new link at carqest $8 (auto zone was out) put it in and havent seen the problem since.
I hope you find the problem whatever the case may be, electrical sucks.

 

[JayRolla]

The link was loose when I first found it, but I tightened it up and nothing. I will change it out for good measure, recheck all connections again for the 20th time,

 

[JayRolla]

Tommorrow I'm going to go over the car completely. Now the car wont start on its own but will run once it is started no problem. I know the alternator is pushing 14v's fine but I dont think its getting to the battery.

 

[JayRolla]

Checked everything over and its all perfect, wiring all looks good. Swapped the alternator fusible link and nothing. I have no idea what to do now. Any more suggestions Steve.

 

[steve]

Any more suggestions Steve.

Same as before. Download http://www.ecanfix.com/users/manualcd/gift/dsm/1g_circuit_diagram.pdf and look at the diagrams starting on page 6 of the pdf. Get out your multimeter and start measuring voltages. I can help you understand the circuit diagrams and how to interpret the results but I can't help you do the work.

This problem may be related to something an earlier owner did or something missed when you put the car back together but we are just guessing with what we have to go on right now.

Let me know once you have looked at the prints and have some thoughts about where you would like to start testing.

 

[toybreaker]

Your symptom sounds like a broken feed wire to the fuse box from the battery.

A quick way to tell would be to pull one of the front row of fuses, (i.e. the power seatbelt fuse, for example).

Check for 12volts in the fuse socket with the car off. It should show 12volts on one side with the key off, because it's directly connected to the battery, (but I'm betting your car won't)

Now light it up, and check it with the engine running. (I'm guessing you've got voltage now.)

EDIT

Jay, I just checked what missing the fuse box feed off the battery would do, and it covers what you're describing.

On the battery positive terminal, there should be three distinct connectors.


(pics coming)

 

[toybreaker]

When the car left the factory, on the positive battery terminal, there should be three distinct connectors.

One feeds the mission critical stuff, and has some fuses built on to it. It powers the ignition, ecu, and fuel system (The car won't run without it)

One feeds the starter, and provides the power to the starter to crank the car. (the car won't turn over without it..you'll just get a click from the solenoid)

And then there's this 'lil devil...( he likes to run off and hide when motors are getting swapped.)

This large wire runs over to the front fuse box, and connects to the fuse box at one leg of the alternator fuse.

It is the battery supply for the seatbelt motors, headlights, etc, and feeds that whole front row of fuses.

The reason that all those circuits work with the engine running is that the alternator also feeds that bus bar, and so when the engine is running, those circuits are fed from the alternator.

More simply, the fuse box isn't recieving battery power, but when the engine is running the alternator backfeeds everything.

Follow the harness over to the fuse box, and inspect the harness loom along the way for damage. Any crunchy, or melted appearing areas should be unwrapped and inspected carefully.

Your harness may have been modified at the battery, so your terminals may not look like mine, and you may have to hunt that wire down.

Jay, I will be down in the Springs later this week. If you need a hand troubleshooting this, shoot me a pm with your number.

I think we could get this fixed by the third beer....

 

[JayRolla]

You hit it perfect. I fixed it today before reading these but you where right. I started to move wires around and I heard the interior buzzer go off. The main power line from the fuse box to the battery had a cut in it near the battery, that we must have caused dropping the motor in or something. Anyways I cut it and reconnected it and everything is working fine. Thanks again.

 

[steve]

Good work tracking it down.

 

[FunnyGas]

i think i may be having the same issue.. altho none of my accessories come on until i rev the car a bit. as well.. when the car is running.. and i pull the pos. termial off the battery, the car dies... sound like the same issue?
ill check my wires today when i get my 2nd new alternator in...