timing marks

[slim2005]

i know this has been hit and hit again but i can't figure out the timing marks on my 2g 1995 eagle talon tsi

 

[slim2005]

i can see the mark on the top left pulley but not the crankshaft pulley. it turns kinda hard at times. please help me with timing. and if you know anything about the cam marks please help. My cam on the left has a mark on a tooth and a notch also. while the right one only has one thanks alot. i'm new to dsm and think it'll be fun once i get the car going.

 

[slim2005]

little better picture

 

[g_ferg]

ok what exactly are you asking for?

 

[92AWDHX40]

Show us a larger picture, that shows all the timing marks.

 

[g_ferg]

there should be a plate in between the timing belt sprocket and the balance shaft sprocket on the crank to line the timing marks up with....

 

[slim2005]

i can't get any other pictures to load it shows it being stored or uploaded and thats it. I need to know where to find the timing marks on the crankshaft ### i can't find any.

 

[g_ferg]

ok again. there should be a plate in between those two pulleys on the crank with a V in it so that you can line the marks up. And you also need to compress the hydraulic tensioner.

 

[g_ferg]

try this. It will be a good start

http://vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-2G.html

 

[slim2005]

there is no plate..... what will compressing that do?

 

[slim2005]

trying to add another picture but can't get one added

 

[g_ferg]

there is no plate..... what will compressing that do?

go to the link i just posted and read through it. It will tell you exactly how to do the timing on the car. Start there. If you still don't understand it come back and let us know we will help you out

 

[slim2005]

even if there is no plate????? and how do i post another picture

 

[g_ferg]

even if there is no plate????? and how do i post another picture

i believe you need that plate. I'm pretty sure the way the crank sensor works that you need it.

 

[btak]

Hey, if your going to redo your timing i would recommend vfaq like the other guys said. Another really good source is go to a parts dealer and buy a hanes manual it will tell you everything you will ever need to know. Make sure your tensioner is still good to otherwise it will lead to a very expensive mistake.

 

[BUCK]

First - do NOT turn the Crank with no TIMING Belt attached, you can bend Valves.

Secondly - The fact that you are struggling just Timing the Front Balance Shaft Belt REALLY has me worried that you won't find SOME kinda way to bend Valves WAY before this is all over.

Thirdly - You CAN spin that Front Balance Shaft without hurting anything - It DOES spin by hand - RIGHT?

Fourthly - It appears you intend to use the OLD tensioner, so even if you get it running by some miracle you'll bend Valves when the OLD Tensioner fails & it jumps time.

Fifthly - STOP - & Memorize the VFAQ & various other resources before you ruin your Christmas - Sincerely... Uncle Buck

& Here's my 2 cents worth on TB Timing & Tensioning...

A really handy tip for setting the timing belt tension is if you are
putting a new hydraulic tensioner on leave the pin in until you
tighten the tensioner pulley, ALSO when you can slip the Pin in The Tensioner is in the CORRECT position so you can check Tension Setting WITH THE PIN.

If using a Drill Bit measure any drillbit you use as I had 2 - 5/32"
drillbits and they varied in thickness by almost a millimeter. When
your working with a gap tolerance that is only 0.7mm wide a 1mm error is unacceptable. I picked the one that was closest and used that one.

I just bought some 8MM ALLTHREAD at a Hardware Store & double nutted 2 Nuts at the end for a Tool.

- If you were to watch what the TB does when tensioned you'd see that the TB literally "rolls" into Time as the Tensioner takes out the Slack at the proper point & pulls slack out of the front side of the TB loop.

- Set Sprockets & Balance Shafts per - http://vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html - EXCEPT....

- It MAY be necessary to BIAS = Mis-Time Exhaust Cam Sprocket ONE Tooth Clockwise - Belt Tensioning process will roll it back into time.

-Don't forget to apply Soft Loctite or RTV to Tensioner Fasteners & apply Final Torque.

-Run ALLTHREAD Tool in until Tensioner Arm Bottoms against Tensioner Rod - PULL GRENADE PIN - Then run ALLTHREAD tool in until Tensioner Arm just Bottoms against Tensioner Body.

-Basically you preload the Eccentric Tension Pulley enough to achieve the correct Gap between Tension Arm & Tensioner Body - SO...

-PRE-LOAD the Eccentric Tension Pulley & snug Pulley Bolt (I used soft Loctite on this Bolt too) - My favorite Tool to apply the Load on the Pulley is a long good quality Square Shanked Screwdriver that lays on one of the Water Pump Bolt Heads nicely for leverage.

-Back off ALLTHREAD TOOL a few Turns thus letting the Tensioner FULLY Tension the T/Belt - but you can leave ALLTHREAD TOOL in place.

- Check Belt Timing Marks - This is where you may see that you have to regroup on initial Timing Belt installation & Bias the Belt as I said at First - Note that of course only every OTHER time Crank Timing Marks line up wil Cam Sprocket Dowels be Up.

- Spin Crank 6 Turns so Timing Belt can take it's initial SEAT in Sprocket Grooves.

- Check Tension setting by trying to reinsert Grenade Pin in Tensioner & / or check gap size with Drill Bit.

- If gap is too large you have UNDER TENSIONED BELT, run ALLTHREAD Tool back in to FULLY depress Tensioner and put MORE PRE-LOAD under Tensioner Pulley with long Screwdriver & SIMULTANEOUSLY loosen Pulley Bolt putting more Tension on Belt, & then Snug up Pulley Bolt while applying Load.

-Back off ALLTHREAD TOOL a few Turns thus letting the Tensioner FULLY Tension the T/Belt - but you can leave ALLTHREAD TOOL in place backed off & not touching Tensioner.

- Check Tension setting by trying to reinsert Grenade Pin in Tensioner & / or check gap size with Drill Bit.

- If Grenade Pin checks Sat apply Final Torque to Tension Pulley Bolt & RECHECK TENSION SETTING .

- If Gap is too small you have OVER-TENSIONED Belt - Back off Tension Pulley Pre-Load a little & RECHECK TENSION SETTING.

- Install just enuff Belts & Pulleys to run Water Pump - attach Battery charger & run Motor with NO Timing Covers & no Alternator - you can leave ALLTHREAD TOOL backed off & of course not touching Tensioner while you do this.

- Immediately when you get it running Check Oil Pressure & then Check for Coolant & Oil Leaks - Check your new Water Pump & Water Pump O Ring, etc, etc... Be ready to Reset Base Timing & Base Idle as it comes up to Full Running Temp - Start off with CAS at middle of adjustment if you don't know where it was.

- After a good long idle or 2 re-check Tension with Grenade Pin, Remove ALLTHREAD tool & Button up Covers if all is SAT - Expect to see one good stretch as Belt heats up & "sets" in the Pulleys & hence TB may need one good re-setting after initial idle.

 

[slim2005]

i already turned the carnk looking for the timing marks. i have the cams lined up and need to know where TDC(top dead center) is so i don't bend valves. and how do i make sure i haven't bent any valves. it's a completly rebuilt motor and they claim it was timed before but i had to remove the belt to replace the camshaft sensor. please help i'm afraid it's gonna get expensive. and is there any way to do timing without the back plate?

 

[BUCK]

To TDC the CRANK - You can slip a long Screwdrivewr thru the Spark Plug Hole - Number 1 is closest to Timing Belt - & 'feel out" when it's at TDC as well as use the marks at Crank.

To TDC the CAMS at #1 Compression Stroke have DOWELS UP & Cam gear marks aligned per pix in the VFAQ.

Moving EITHER with no Timing Belt attached you need to be VERY careful or you WILL bend Valves - PERIOD.

& it's actually GOOD that you are afraid, you need to be - It's when you get BOLD that you'll screw something up - REMEMBER THAT~!

You'll need the Plate that goes on the Crank to Time the T/Belt - You can put that Plate on BACKWARDS & screw up too - DO YOUR HOMEWORK prior to doing this job~!

Uncle Buck has to go get drunk at a Christmas Party now - I'm sure someone else competent will be along shortly - In the meantime, STUDY~!

 

[slim2005]

thanks buck.. i ordered the plate today.. how do i know which way to put it on so it's not backwards.. also when it's at tdc on piston 1 am i ok to do the rest of the timing i got everything set except for the crankshaft. the intake and exhaust cams are set as is the pulley on the far left. i just need the crankshaft done. and i'm not sure of the marks on the crank and balance shaft. as in which marks on the motoir do i need to line it up with. and i'm lost on the whole six turn thing. thanks to all of you for helping. i wanted it done for christmas so i could give my girl my 1.8l turbo vw passat but i would rather have everything right. maybe she'll get it for valentines day. thanks again and please continue to help.

p.s. if anyone can tell me how to load more pics after i "upload" them to the website so i can include them to this post please help me

 

[BUCK]

Pistons 1 & 4 go up & down together & #2 & #3 go up & down together - Put a long Screwdriver in #2 or #3 & turn Crank whichever way it takes to make #2 & #3 go DOWN (away fm open valves so as not bend them) - That will make #1 & #4 go up, take #1 & #4 up to TDC & stop.

There's certainly a pic somewhere of the Plate properly Installed, your FIRST clue would be the Mark on Plate not lining up with the Mark on the Front Case when you KNOW good & well that #1 is as High as it goes (TDC) - Once again when in doubt just 'feel it out" with a long screwdriver to verify proper Plate installation.

Some GREAT pix & Links @

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...l-installing-timing-timing-belt-6bolt-2g.html

 

[g_ferg]

thanks buck.. i ordered the plate today.. how do i know which way to put it on so it's not backwards.. also when it's at tdc on piston 1 am i ok to do the rest of the timing i got everything set except for the crankshaft. the intake and exhaust cams are set as is the pulley on the far left. i just need the crankshaft done. and i'm not sure of the marks on the crank and balance shaft. as in which marks on the motoir do i need to line it up with. and i'm lost on the whole six turn thing. thanks to all of you for helping. i wanted it done for christmas so i could give my girl my 1.8l turbo vw passat but i would rather have everything right. maybe she'll get it for valentines day. thanks again and please continue to help.

p.s. if anyone can tell me how to load more pics after i "upload" them to the website so i can include them to this post please help me

ok first if you really wanted there is a mark on the pulley or the sprocket that the balance shaft belt goes around. The mark is a little circle and it is on one of the teeth of the sprocket. It should also line up with the timing mark on the motor. So you could line that up before you also put the plate(forgot what its called) on that goes in between the two pulleys. And doing the rest of the timing??? i wouldn't bother till you get the plate you need. And the balance shaft mark lines up with the nick or little gap...i would give you pictures but my motor is out of my car and completely torn apart...

 

[slim2005]

i have the plate now that goes on the crankshaft between the two pulley i just need to know which way it goes it has that notch to line it up on the crank but which side goes where it's bowl shaped on one side and knda sticks out on the other due to the bowl shape on the other side.

 

[tqmx1]

Run #1 piston up to TDC install the plate. One way it will aline with the fixed timing mark the other it will be a mile off.

This is not brain surgery.

 

[BUCK]

Pistons 1 & 4 go up & down together & #2 & #3 go up & down together - Put a long Screwdriver in #2 or #3 & turn Crank whichever way it takes to make #2 & #3 go DOWN (away fm open valves so as not bend them) - That will make #1 & #4 go up, take #1 & #4 up to TDC & stop - INSTALL PLATE TO LINE UP WITH TIMING MARK.

 

[absolute_DSM]

This is not brane surgery.

Must be brain surgery.