E3B16g problems....out of options

[banishedmunk]

Ok, so heres the low down. I have a 98 GSX that I just did a E3B16g upgrade to it. The car already has an intake, Greddy Type RS bov, and Apex'i N1 turbo back exhaust. When I upgraded the turbo, I put 650cc injectors, new BPR6ES plugs, 8.5mm wires, AFC NEO, 255lph pump, and Dejon tool lower intercooler pipe. We used an Innovate LM-1 wideband to tune the car at 11.5 at wide open throttle. Car ran ok. First few pulls after trying to set the boost to 15psi, the car would start to overspool at 5000 rpm on the dot every single time. After those pulls, I figured I'd need to port the turbine housing and that would fix the overspool problem. So we took the turbine housing off, and using the "How to port to fix boost creep" thread we ported it out, along with the o2 housing. We then turned our attention to the wastegate, because the actuator seemed to only open the door about an 1/8 of the way. We figured that might be bad. My buddy had 2 other wastegates that were known good off of two other E3's, and they both opened the same distance. Ok, so NOT the problem. Either way, we ported the housings anyways. Then we did a full boost lead check, and fixed all the leaks, not a peep from any part of the motor. Went out and tried another pull, and it did it again. As soon as the turbo hit the selected boost setting, it would flux about 5psi really fast, and then as soon as you hit 5k on the dot, it would shoot up to past 20. Even through all this, we were still fat on fuel on the top end, but we decided to try the Aeromotive FPR I had from the Talon on it. We put that on, and took out the lower honeycomb on the MAF because we were at about -40 at some parts of the WOT on the NEO. That bumped it up to 20-30 range, which was good, but now its doing it at 6000rpm. The boost holds steady at 20psi now, however as soon as you hit 6000rpm it feels like it just dies and then the turbo overspools. We even changed out the engine coolant temp sensor because it seemed like mine had gone bad. It helped a bit, but not enough for it to pull through 6000rpm. I am completely out of ideas

Background on this turbo, I had run it on my 91 Talon TSi AWD at 20psi for the past 1 1/2 years and ran a best of 12.5 at 109.6. Its an actual MHI E3B16g with a E3 O2 housing. Car held boost on the Talon rock-steady at 20psi. All of the parts I put on the Eclipse were off of the Talon.

.....I need some help, this problem has been bugging me since Friday night. Any help would be appreciated

 

[banishedmunk]

So NO one can help me or have any ideas?

 

[Bender]

Where do you have the vacuum line to the wastegate coming from?

 

[mach4g63t]

He didn't put the AFPR on it and left it with the stocker.

 

[banishedmunk]

Actually Matt, if you read it, I DID put it in

The vaccuum source for the wastegate is teed off of the input line to the BOV which is sourced from the intake manifold

 

[Bender]

Have the BOV directly connected to the intake manifold. As for the wastegate feed the best source is right at the turbo. Add a nipple on the intercooler pipe right at the output of the turbo. (since the 16g'sdont have one on the compressor housing) Run that to your boost controller, then to your wastegate. Also make sure there is a vent between the boost controller and the wastegate. (most boost controllers have one already drilled) If there is not, drill a 1/16th inch hole on the fitting that leads to the wastegate.

 

[mach4g63t]

The thing that I don't understand about his turbo and the wastegate flapper is that it's opening 2/3 of the way at most. Even on my knock off it opens fully, but with all the actuators it's kind of jew.

Brian, swing by the hobby shop tonight and we can test/pull the WGA off my 16g and try it on yours. It's not going on my for awhile anyway.

 

[Bender]

The flappers on MHI 16 g's only open up that far. That is why there is an upgrade for a 34mm flapper on the EVO3GT's from GT concepts. You can also by the upgraded flapper for normal 16g's when you run higher boost. The factory sized flapper is good for about 25 lbs of boost. The flapper not opening all the way is perfectly normal. I believe his problem lies in the vacuum going to the wastegate. First off, sharing bov lines with a wastegate is a big no-no. Many people say to do this, but it creates surging and boosting problems. The best source to feed the wastegate is the turbo compressor housing, but since the 16g's dont have a nipple, you need to make your own. I drilled and tapped the flange on the intercooler piping going to my turbo, and ran the boost source from there. I don't know which boost controller you are using, but it needs to have a vent hole if one is not already there.

 

[banishedmunk]

Hmm....I have a J-pipe that has a nipple already on it. And the TurboXS controller that I have already has a vent in it I believe, considering I could hear it venting during all the boost leak tests. Thanks for the info Bender, I'll try that as soon as I get off of work and let you know. BTW, I have the stock upper intercooler pipe/hose that I'm trading out tonight for a hard pipe as well, so I'll let you know the details. Thanks again

 

[Bender]

Ok, just remember that the vent on the controller needs to face the wastegate for it to work properly. Also, for best turbo response, the vacuum lines that you use to connect the nipple on the j-pipe to the controller to the wastegate should be as short as possible. Let me know how it all goes.

 

[banishedmunk]

Alright man, it fixed the creep problem, but the flux is still there. I imagine its because of the soft hose on my UICP...didn't get a chance to put it on tonight. But thanks for the help man....I was going through all the harder stuff and didn't realize it was that easy of a fix. I could've swore I had it run like that on my Talon, but I dont remember....Appreciate the help anyways man.

 

[Bender]

It may not even be the soft rubber hose either. (although it is possible) What stiffness is the BOV set at? The main reason not to tee off the BOV line is because it needs all the vacuum and boost it needs to stop from blowing open. (the extra line equalizes the pressure, then when you close the throttlebody, the pressure is higher on the bottom of the BOV, and it opens) I thought that may have been your main problem, from the wastegate sucking the pressure out of the BOV line, and unequalizing the pressure. Then the bov opened up slightly, and the turbo was aloud to "free rev." Try tightening the stiffness on the BOV a little bit. Don't crank it down though, or you will get compressor surge. If it is too tight now, you may be experiencing compressor surge..not overspool. So if it is stiff, soften it; if it is soft, tighten it. If it is in the middle, go a turn or so tight and go from there.

 

[Bender]

Any luck?