Why dont I believe the mechanic?: ball-joints

[AlphaAssault]

I took the GSX in to the shop today, and told them to have a look at the ball joints. Sure enough, i was right and the ball joints needed to be replaced. They sprayed them down with WD-40, but to replace the ball joints it would cost $630!!! They told me that you had to replace the joints as well as the control arms. Now $630 is awful high, considering *I* found ball joints online for about $30 each. How difficult is it to replace JUST the ball joints? Is it something I could do over a weekend if I have a shop manual for the Eclipse handy? Also, any tips on how to replace them myself would be very helpful.

 

[babell2]

Wow!! WTF They just want to take the lazy way out and get in to your wallet further. Lower ball joints as you said are around $32.00 rent the ball joint replacment set from the local parts store (I know Advance rents one) and you should be able to crank it out with no problems. I forgot to look at your profile to see where you are at but if rust is a factor you may want to invest in some PB Blaster as well. You will also meed some heafty snap ring pliers.

 

[mentalTSiAWD]

If you're mechanically inclined at all, I wouldn't let them do it. I did my own just a couple of weeks ago. I bought both upper and lower control arms and the lateral arm from RockAuto.com for under $300. In three hours I was down off the lift and didn't have an ounce of trouble with them. I used a BFH to knock them loose though.
Good Luck

 

[JROD_GST]

I am in the same boat. i need to replace my ball joints. I also would like to know about how long it would take. if anyone has any tips/tricks that would help me out, that would be great.

edit - you posted right before me, but thanks for the tips

 

[GreenGSX]

You should keep a few things in mind before you bash the mechanic. Not every mechanic is a DSM expert. If we didn't have this vast wealth of DSM info at our fingertips and just tried to look up a front ball joint for a 1G car we wouldn't find a listing. If you then called the dealer parts department they would tell you that you have to buy the lower control arm. I would estimate you would get charged $200 each for the control arms, bushings, and bolts gets you to $400. Add on labor and you're over $600 easy.

Now we know that you can use the rear control arm ball joints and just press them into the front control arms. That should run you about $30 for the ball joint and an hour for labor. $200 would be resonable.

Getting the mechanic to do the job is another story. Mechanics get into trouble real quick when they try customer suggested ways of doing things or use customer supplied parts. So don't be suprised if they won't do it. I would try my local auto parts store to see they have a ball joint tool for you to rent. Then you can do it yourself. Don't forget to pull the snap ring before you try to press out the ball joint.

Good luck.

 

[AlphaAssault]

Well, hang on a second. If the ball joints are bad, does that mean that the control arms are bad also? I dont want to replace the ball joints just to have the arms fail on me a few weeks later. When we looked at the car, the ball joints were the only parts that were bad. I guess my question is, is it wise to just replace the joints and leave the control arms as they are?

EDIT: I am a bit confused. I am looking at a diagram, and when we are talking about a ball joint, is it connected to the upper or lower control arm? Or are there ball joints on BOTH upper and lower control arms?

 

[babell2]

Well, hang on a second. If the ball joints are bad, does that mean that the control arms are bad also? I dont want to replace the ball joints just to have the arms fail on me a few weeks later. When we looked at the car, the ball joints were the only parts that were bad. I guess my question is, is it wise to just replace the joints and leave the control arms as they are?

You have a 90 GSX I, have a 90 Talon AWD. Unless you have done some heavy curb adjustment or an off road experience I see no reason that you would need to replace the lower control arms. Possibly lower control arm bushings due to age and wear but wearing out a two piece welded assembly is tough.

 

[AlphaAssault]

Does the whole lower control arm need to come off to replace the ball joint, or can you just loosen the end closest to the wheel enough to pop the joint off?

 

[turboglenn]

Not sure on your guy''s 1g's, but on my 2g the front lower control arm is connected (press fitted) to teh ball joint. They make kits to where you can cut the arm nad put just a balljoint on it, but the whole arm is only 105 bucks so i replace teh whole thing when it's time. ANd as rough as i am on the car and as weak as that balljoint is on a 2 g i replace tehm about every 3-4 years

 

[OakStreetTuner]

I understand your guy's frustration. Im a mechanic and I see this alot. We are tought not to trust the customer to any degree simply because no one out there it seems anymore knows anything about cars. Taking it to a shop is going to lead to a big bill, no way around it. Doing it yourself is going to be the best way. There will be no need to replace the control arms, only the joints. all you need to do is press them out and replace with new ones. Good Luck Bud!!!!

 

[AlphaAssault]

Well, I know how to get the joint itself off the arm, but do I need to take the whole arm complety off the car, or can I just unbolt one side of the control arm and take the ball-joint off while the arm is still (mostly) attached to the car?

 

[babell2]

Does the whole lower control arm need to come off to replace the ball joint, or can you just loosen the end closest to the wheel enough to pop the joint off?

No it doesn't. But it is a lot easier to remove the entire strut to get it out of the way. That will envolve removing the axle nut, brake caliper, one bolt on the strut that attaches the brake line to it, and last the three nuts at the top of the strut. Tie the brake caliper to the bolt holes in the top of the fender with some wire and you have the ball joint sitting unobstructed in front of you. OOPs after looking at the picture you will also have to take the outer tie rod end off.
This picture still has the hub on it but that's what you are replacing.

 

[AlphaAssault]

Heres a link of some replacement joints I found:

Auto Parts and Accessories Catalog - 1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse Ball Joint

Im being paranoid, but will all three of those fit my GSX? Im thinking about buying a pair of the $32 ones, what do yall think?

 

[babell2]

Heres a link of some replacement joints I found:

Auto Parts and Accessories Catalog - 1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse Ball Joint

Im being paranoid, but will all three of those fit my GSX? Im thinking about buying a pair of the $32 ones, what do yall think?

The Moog and the Beck/Arnley will fit that Mevotech is for the later style front ends.

 

[just2asian]

If you're mechanically inclined at all, I wouldn't let them do it. I did my own just a couple of weeks ago. I bought both upper and lower control arms and the lateral arm from RockAuto.com for under $300. In three hours I was down off the lift and didn't have an ounce of trouble with them. I used a BFH to knock them loose though.
Good Luck

Haha "BFH" love it.

 

[turbobird14]

moog is a very A+ quality front end part.... being front end certified and working in a bunch of repair shops... 600 bucks for replacing ball joints is pretty common... you have to remember... not everyone owns money grubbing whores we call DSM's... where we buy 600 dollar turbo's and aftermarket parts... other people spend the money to maintain theirs... i pick the turbo personally! but as was stated earlier... part stores will sell the whole control arm assembly 9 out of 10 times... and thats the only way i would go is to replace the whole control arm... some ball joint will be a huge pain to you if its a first time tackeling something like this

 

[toybreaker]

Now we know that you can use the rear control arm ball joints and just press them into the front control arms. That should run you about $30 for the ball joint and an hour for labor. $200 would be resonable.

Getting the mechanic to do the job is another story. Mechanics get into trouble real quick when they try customer suggested ways of doing things or use customer supplied parts. So don't be suprised if they won't do it. I would try my local auto parts store to see they have a ball joint tool for you to rent. Then you can do it yourself. Don't forget to pull the snap ring before you try to press out the ball joint.

Good luck.

^Very good advice! I've always felt that if you take pride in doing your own work, can change your own oil/perform a tune up, then, with a little care, you can do this job!

My experience, (20+years, Ase master tech, ) is that the O.E. ball joints will outlast anything you can find in the aftermarket, end of story.


My preference is to do the arm off the car, as it will allow for less trauma to the surrounding components. (like c.v. boots)

It will also give you an opprotunity to check all the other components more thoroughly.

Take the time to thoroughly check the rear control arm bushing. Many times, water will wick up the open end of the bushing and corrode the control arm "pin" that the bushing rides on. (see pic at bottom of page)

Once this happens, your best bet is another arm. I've been sealing this opening with a little rtv/window weld, (etc.), when I replace the rear bushing. (Just be sure it's dry before re-installing the arm.)

Several manufacturers make high performance/urethane bushing sets for these cars, so there's a few options to choose from if you want to replace them/upgrade at this time.

One of the symptoms of a bad rear bushing on the front control arm is a car that's "darty" under hard braking, or nibbles at the edges of the wheeltracks/lanes on the freeway. You can check the bushing visually, but, (gently) prying the rear of the arm sideways with a small prybar will more acurately tell the tale. Any more than just a small amount of deflection spells caster/camber/toe change for that corner of the car when you load it up with cornering or braking forces.

This job isn't hard to do in your own garage. Even if all you do is remove the arms and take them somewhere to get the ball joints pressed, you'll still come out spending less than ~$100...

(Plus beer, of course. )

Be sure to check the pillow ball/sway bar links as well. When they get loose/worn, they can give a "pop" that sounds just like a bad ball joint.

When it's time to reassemble everything, spending a little extra time on the details will pay great dividends in the future.

I like to assemble everything ~snugly~, and then set the suspension back to it's natural ride height before torquing everything up.

After it's back on it's wheels, I'll loosen the hardware a turn or two, bounce the car a few times to settle things and then get to torquing things up, with everything at it's natural ride height. tease:yea, it's a pain in the arse, but the results are well worth it! )

You can also set the control arm angle on the lift by pulling the strut/knuckle back with a ratcheting tie strap, and then holding the control arm at ride height, whilst you tighten the hardware. ( normal ride on a non lowered car, the control arm will be ~parallel~ to the ground. On lowered cars, eyeball the control arm angle before taking things apart and just put it back to the same angle when you re-assemble things.)

Failure to perform this step will result in the bushing winding up when you set the vehicle back on it's wheels, and the control arm rotates back to it's normal position. This will wind up/stretch/deform the bushings, drastically shortening their service life.

The ball joint nut torques to 43-52 ftlbs.

The front bushing thru-bolt torques to 72-87ftlbs.

The rear bushing 14mm nuts torque to 25-34 ftlbs.

The rear bushing short bolt torques to 58-72 ftlbs

The rear bushing long bolt torques to 72-87 ftlbs.

The sway bar pillow ball/end link torques to 25-33ftlbs.

**A quick word about anti-sieze.**

It's a good idea to coat the hardware with anti-sieze to prevent/minimise corrosion.

However, if you coat the threads, be sure to lower your torque values a schosche, as the anti-sieze will lubricate the threads, resulting in a lot more stretch/preload on the threads for a given rotational torque (what you're measuring with your torque wrench). You COULD very easily strip the rear control arm bolts, or even worse, strip the captive nut inside the uni-body! I have had to make this repair several times for locals, and even a few shops.

Lately, I've been coating the shank of the bolt up to the threads with anti-sieze, and then I give the treads a dose of blue loc-tite, and then torque everything, (time efficiently) to the factory numbers. The loc-tite seals the threads up nicely, and gives some piece of mind.

Don't forget that alignment! Driving with excessive toe or camber will load the new ball joint up and drastically shorten it's service life, and you could be doing this job again in a very short period of time.

 

[toybreaker]

Doh!

Edited out my pic

Yes, that dust and those crumbs are what's left of the outside of the pin. There's still some stuck inside the bushing, as well. WTF