WON'T START! Here are some clues!

[cturok7]

Hey DSMers
My vehicle's wiring worked right for awhile. I found what was an obvious power drain because my defroster was stuck on. Heres the catch. Since the drain, I have had to start the car with jumpers and run the car off of jumpers. Now, keep in mind, my car has been sitting outside for some time, so i found, no to my surprise, some (hah) corrosion on the battery terminals and wires. So the corrosion is a given. Now, I don't know how far down that corrosion follows, but I'm betting it's fairly extensive. So this brings me to the first question: Can corrosion be the cause of a short? Keep in mind my defrost was stuck on. If so, then did my alternator work all along causing my donor car's power plus the alternator fry something? Before I caught this drain I thought it was an alternator not working, but my new theory is that the alternator was fine and it was charging my battery along with the donor car it was hooked up with.

So anyway, one day I started the car with the jumpers again as usual. Then I shut it off. Turned it back on and I believe it ran for a bit, but cut shortly after.

I had drain which I believed to be a short (when 2 wires touch from different circuits, right?). Jumped the car one day and it cut off on the second jump. I know this is a lot to read so forgive me in advance. Please help because I don't know what I could have fried.

 

[19Eclipse90]

Corrosion around the terminals doesn't allow for a good contact. This will not always let the battery charge. If you are concerned with the output of the alternator, get an Ohm meter and measure it at the B+ terminal -- or pull it out and take it to Autozone so they can test it for you (it takes no more than 45 minutes to get it out, but it takes a whole 5 seconds to get a output reading with an Ohm meter).
It sounds like both your battery and alternator are toast, but clean all the corrosion and start from there.

 

[cturok7]

Corrosion around the terminals doesn't allow for a good contact. This will not always let the battery charge. If you are concerned with the output of the alternator, get an Ohm meter and measure it at the B+ terminal -- or pull it out and take it to Autozone so they can test it for you (it takes no more than 45 minutes to get it out, but it takes a whole 5 seconds to get a output reading with an Ohm meter).
It sounds like both your battery and alternator are toast, but clean all the corrosion and start from there.

I have tried to get to the alternator and take it out. It's cramped in that motor. There's a 12mm bolt on the right side that is a B#### to get to. I have to find the right wrench, but yes my plan is to take it out and have it tested. I'm taking the engine out anyways to do a balance shaft elimination so I figure I'll just start pulling...well...everything. I don't understand how a battery terminal can be corroded and work fine for awhile and then all of a sudden stop charging, but I believe it. Also I need my father or somebody to teach me how to take the belt off.

But answer me this: Might the corrosion be the cause of a likely short? remember that the rear defrost is stuck on when the car has power (which it doesn't now and I believe it has something to do with that short after I jumped it). Thanks for your response!

 

[19Eclipse90]

Corrosion will not cause a short.
I don't recall if there is a fuse or not for the rear defroster, but you can always remove the dash plate and disconnect the switch to see if that solves anything. Remember though, the rear defroster should not have any power while the car is off -- it should not drain the battery. In the same respect with the car on, the switch should not drain the battery unless your battery is not being charged. Why would the battery not be charging? Bad alternator or battery.
If a short exists in the switch or anywhere in the electrical system, it will drain the battery. Disconnecting the switch will either eliminate it as a suspect or find it as the cause.

Lastly, the bolt for the alternator is really not that tough to get to. You may find it easier to work in the space, if you haven't done so already, by removing the driver's side fan; but be careful not to damage your radiator. The fan is held on by three 10 mm bolts, two up top and one on the bottom. It also has the power connection on the upper driver's side that would need to be undone. I know personally that I have zero room to work on the alternator without removing the fan. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[cturok7]

Yes, there is a fuse for the RDef. My main problem now, though, is that my car won't start and I think it has alot to do with jumping the car with the possible short. I don't know if it fried anything. I was reading a forum not too long ago about how this guy was worried that he fried his ECU. Anyway, I just want to prove to myself that I can start the car. I haven't blown any fuses. Would any of the fuses have to do with starting. It's possible that theres not a short, but that overnight drain is something short or not.

 

[steve]

My main problem now, though, is that my car won't start

Have you gone through this? http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217951

 

[macgsx]

I would start at replacing the battery and alternator. corosion would not casue a short like said above. Instead of thinking about it to deeply, replace the battery and either check or replace the alternator

Jordan

 

[steve]

Instead of thinking about it to deeply, replace the battery and either check or replace the alternator

Jordan

Thinking and testing are far cheaper than replacing. Besides who wants to be a monkey mechanic swapping random parts until you get lucky.

 

[cturok7]

Thinking and testing are far cheaper than replacing. Besides who wants to be a monkey mechanic swapping random parts until you get lucky.

I have already considered the battery and alternator. Those are two of the most obvious things to check. I have already replaced the battery and after I did and started the car one day it seemed fine, but two days later it was dead. This is why I have to jump. It's hard to say that it's the alternators fault because a complete drain of the battery took just two days. So there is a "parasitic leak." However, after I jumped the car one day, it actually cut out. That's why I'm thinking I fried something.

 

[19Eclipse90]

The alternator could definitely be causing your problem. Why don't you stop assuming it is working correctly and test it? I have just had two different cars with the same problem, compared to what you have described, and both of them ended up needing new batteries and alternators. If it isn't your alternator, then yes you might need to start looking for a parasitic drain.

 

[cturok7]

The alternator could definitely be causing your problem. Why don't you stop assuming it is working correctly and test it? I have just had two different cars with the same problem, compared to what you have described, and both of them ended up needing new batteries and alternators. If it isn't your alternator, then yes you might need to start looking for a parasitic drain.

You're right, but what do you think about that rear defrost being stuck on. I was just wondering if that was the problem. Or maybe it coincides with the alternator problem. Remember, the car cut out and won't start after the last time i jumped it. So you're saying that it is possible that the alternator is one of the key factors to my problem. I'm not going to discount the alternator I just couldn't get to it and I have to have my dad teach me how to take the belt of any way. So while I'm at it I figure just to start unhooking stuff from the engine because I'm doing a Balance Shaft Elimination. By the way, 19Eclipse90, do you have your BS eliminated? Just yes or no seeing as this thread is about Electronics.

 

[19Eclipse90]

You're right, but what do you think about that rear defrost being stuck on. I was just wondering if that was the problem. Or maybe it coincides with the alternator problem. Remember, the car cut out and won't start after the last time i jumped it. So you're saying that it is possible that the alternator is one of the key factors to my problem. I'm not going to discount the alternator I just couldn't get to it and I have to have my dad teach me how to take the belt of any way. So while I'm at it I figure just to start unhooking stuff from the engine because I'm doing a Balance Shaft Elimination. By the way, 19Eclipse90, do you have your BS eliminated? Just yes or no seeing as this thread is about Electronics.

I'm saying that it is possible that by replacing the battery with a bad alternator, all you were doing is running off the battery. For a couple days, yes that will be fine. But when the alternator isn't charging the battery back, then it will only last those couple days. Jumping the battery will give it a little bit of juice for a little bit of time. After enough jumps, it won't be able to hold a charge at all and will not start. If your battery does have proper voltage, dash lights turn on, etc. and the car just does not start, then you have a different problem on your hands. If no lights are turning on, your battery is toast.

I do not know enough to say whether or not the rear defrost is the cause of your problem. That's why I would recommend disconnecting it and going from there. As I said earlier, while the battery is charging and the car is on, it should not be a problem at all. Unless the switch is in short, it won't be draining power. But you cannot confirm any of this unless you know your alternator is working properly.

No, I do not have my BS eliminated.

Keep us updated.

 

[cturok7]

I'm saying that it is possible that by replacing the battery with a bad alternator, all you were doing is running off the battery. For a couple days, yes that will be fine. But when the alternator isn't charging the battery back, then it will only last those couple days. Jumping the battery will give it a little bit of juice for a little bit of time. After enough jumps, it won't be able to hold a charge at all and will not start. If your battery does have proper voltage, dash lights turn on, etc. and the car just does not start, then you have a different problem on your hands. If no lights are turning on, your battery is toast.

I do not know enough to say whether or not the rear defrost is the cause of your problem. That's why I would recommend disconnecting it and going from there. As I said earlier, while the battery is charging and the car is on, it should not be a problem at all. Unless the switch is in short, it won't be draining power. But you cannot confirm any of this unless you know your alternator is working properly.

No, I do not have my BS eliminated.

Keep us updated.

Yes, I have reason to believe it is in short due to corrosion because it never had this problem until the car sat for a lengthly period of time. But, of course, once I get the alternator tested I can make a better judgement. Now I am taking the car's engine apart. Alternator will be taken pretty soon. Thanks for the help.

 

[cturok7]

You have a point, 19elipse90, but my car completely died after I jumped it. I'm saying that the jump killed it. I'm having the alternator tested today. Yes, today. I have been learning about how to disassemble the engine. I just need practice. I'm a "from scratch" tuner. I need to learn to be a mechanic as well.

 

[cturok7]

Hey guys. I'm back. Here is my problem. This is the question. If my ignition is left in the on position and I jump my car, can that fry the ECU. That's the question I'm trying to get answered. Here is what I did:

I went outside to jump the car as usual because of a parasitic leak somewhere along the Rdefroster line. So I jump the car like usual. I let it run for about 15 minutes. It died right after I disconnected the cables from the terminals and if I remember correctly I left the key in the ON position seeing as I was outside the car. This was to test if the car would run by itself. Then, when it died right after I took the cables off I jumped it again. (Pretty sure the key is in the on position still). I went to start it and it started then immediately died. I tried repeatedly to start it again, but the starter wouldn't even go. No crank. no turning. Nothing. Could it be the starter or something deeper? My DSM is in parts right now because I'm taking the engine out, but this is for the future. ELECTRIC STUFF FRUSTRATES ME! AARRGGHH!