Non turbo block questions

[fivehunsky]

I am needing to replace my engine and looking at prices it seems very easy to just take a non turbo motor and just put my intake/exaust setup on it, with new pistons, cams, and head gasket of course and save a few hundred bucks. Am i wrong in thinking this. Ive read that the non turbo block is better anyway but im not sure. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jdhutchin]

New pistons, cams, and a headgasket are going to eat up the couple hundred bucks cheaper real fast, plus the time that it will take you (unless you have the parts laying around and the experience to do it quickly)

 

[fivehunsky]

any engine i install, turbo or not, is gonna get new pistons and headgasket anyway. Im just wondering about whats different between the turbo and non turbo engines if there is any downfall to using the non turbo as a base. Ive read that the turbo has oil misters in the engine that can fail so some people use the non turbo blocks anyway. Im new so im not sure what the best option is here. The turbo motors im finding are around 1400.00 but the non turbo are more around 500.00. so there is a big price difference. Do the non turbo engines have different ports or is it just the same head with different cams.

 

[Rex2342]

If you plan on getting OEM pistons the N/T block isn't going to cut it. N/T block don't have the oil squirters like Turbo blocks do. These are used to cool the piston skirts under boost and it isn't recommended to use stock turbo pistons without them. If anything at least get forged pistons and reuse the stock rods. Another difference with the blocks is the knock sensor. N/T's don't use one but there are several locations on the back of the block to screw one in place.Other than that the only thing I can think of that you haven't listed are the T-Stat housing, and oil filter housing.These can just be carried over from your car though so it's not a big deal. The N/T head is exactly the same as the turbo but there is a plug in the left side for a water or oil line (not sure which).

 

[fivehunsky]

Do you have to do anything to run aftermarket pistons or will they work with stock rods. Ive read that you have to machine the rods or pistons becuase they use different size pins. Im not sure. Again im just going from stuff ive read and its all over the place when it comes to quality and facts. Also, on the lack of squirters in the block. Will the pistons be more likely to fail without them. Im pretty sure they would be but I read that the squirters are why some people use the non turbo blocks anyway. It makes sense to me that having fresh oil on the pistons and cylinder walls would be a good thing but ive been told that they could fail and take out your engine. Is that true.

 

[Rex2342]

Do you have to do anything to run aftermarket pistons or will they work with stock rods. Ive read that you have to machine the rods or pistons becuase they use different size pins. Im not sure. Again im just going from stuff ive read and its all over the place when it comes to quality and facts. Also, on the lack of squirters in the block. Will the pistons be more likely to fail without them. Im pretty sure they would be but I read that the squirters are why some people use the non turbo blocks anyway. It makes sense to me that having fresh oil on the pistons and cylinder walls would be a good thing but ive been told that they could fail and take out your engine. Is that true.

Just make sure you get pistons that are for stock style rods. Most after market companies use spring locks to keep the wrist pins in place but I believe JE and Weisco make a set for stock rods but I'm not 100% sure. Just call whoever you buy them from and triple check to be sure your getting what you need. The oil squirters cool the piston skirts under boost. Since the stock pistons are a cast alloy they are a little more brittle and are more prone to heat damage. Without the squirters I don't see them lasting very long. Forged pistons are allot stronger and are designed for high heat/boosted applications so the squirters aren't needed to cools the skirts. Without the squirters you'll get more oil pressure to the areas that need it (like the turbo). Most people run the N/T block for this reason and are just running forged pistons. Too much oil pressure can be a bad thing though and if your ditching the balance shafts with this project (I would!!) your oil pressure will sky rocket. Check out this link on how to port the oil filter housing since your motor is already out.It's fairly easy to do and the pics in the link show you how to do it.

http://www.utdsm.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album12

 

[fivehunsky]

Thanks for all the info guys. Its greatly appreciated.

 

[Streetsweeper21]

I have experienced trying to make a non turbo to turbo. I used a 90 non-turbo block with a 90 turbo fwd tranny and the bolts for the tranny didnt match up wit the motor it was off. There was no way to put a turbo tranny on a non turbo block. Jus my expericense, I also still have the non-turbo block and I now have a 90 awd tranny. I could see if this now matches up to the non turbo block.

 

[Talonman92]

Everything Rex said is basically right. The turbo block oil squirters are there for a reason, because STOCK pistons need the oil to cool them. If you are going forged then I dont think it will matter much which block you use. The oil squirters themselves dont really break unless your like me and get something inside your motor. They operate on oil pressure so no moving parts to really malfunction.

Removing oil squirters I heard can cause an unsafe jump in oil pressure, granted your balance shafts are gone. Forged pistons may interfere with the oil squirters also in which case the N\T block might be the better choise.

 

[Drifte]

I run a n/a block 7bolt with NO oil squirters (1 of supposed causes of crank walk) with 2g pistons on stock rods. Pistons are ceramic coated to handle the heat. Also run a 90 style air oil cooler. Probably have 50k on this setup. Run the same head with turbo cams. Also still run n/a transmission, which is geared waaay to short. Still have balance shafts.