Car won't start (just goes klink)

[laserspeeddemon]

Ok, this is a test question for some of you newbies. I would rather the Wisemens and Moderators not chime. I wanted to A)Give the newbies a chance to answer this and get some rep points and B) have the info available to fellow DSMers, as the symptons were typical, but the solution was not.

Heres the situation. My wifes car would sometimes start fine and somtimes, not start at all. The starter would just make a "klink" sound, when I turned the key. Heres what I did to fix to try and fix the problem.

New Battery (12.6v before starting falling to 12.2 when trying to start)
New Starter.
New Alternator (not related, but still new)
Starter Relay is good. (Connectivity on Termals 1&3 and 2&4 with no power, no connectivity on terminals 1&3 when power is supplied to terminal 4 and terminal 2 was grounded)
Clutch switch disabled.

What other possible problems would cause this problem?

Rep points goes to those with good answers with supporting references.

 

[redfury]

Only a few basic things are necessary for the engine operation
1. Fuel (To be exact proper air/fuel ratio, normally it is about 14/1)
2. Spark (in appropriate moment)
3. Proper timing (the valves should open and close only in appropriate time)
4. Compression in the cylinders (Normal compression is 120 - 170 psi. The engine won't start if the compression is lower than 70 - 80 psi.)


http://www.samarins.com/diagnose/index.html



Does it turn over at all? If it DOES then it's not the starter, battery or alternator. You need to make sure you're getting spark and that it's not something a little deeper than you think. If it DOESN'T then it's probably the starter, the starter solenoid or the main fuse. Check the fuse box and make sure all the fuses look fine. Your next step would be to replace the starter and/or solenoid after making sure the wires to them are not broken somewhere.

 

[oldman]

I know I know..... You had to clean the battery terminals. Where's my rep point?

 

[phillabaum03]

Sounds like something might not be grounded all the way?

 

[steve]

Where's my rep point?

I really shouldn't have to point out to a moderator that whoring for points is against the rules.

From http://dsmtuners.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_faq_reputation

"If we find people abusing the system, we'll take away all of their points and knock them back down to New Member status. We don't mind if you ask members, who you've bent over backwards to help, to give you reputation points (via private message), even though that's not in the spirit of the system. However, members should not publicly ask for reputation points, and should not leave their username when giving points to others as a way of trying to attract reciprocal points. Do not attempt to contact other members and ask them to "swap" points as a way of padding your points total. That's considered abuse and you'll lose some privileges for it."



Steve

 

[oldman]

But I need to sell some stuff!

 

[Talonman92]

What were the conditions when the car would start fine?

I had a similar situation where my car would start right up when it was cold. After it got up to operating temp during the summer months if i turned it off it would not start. However you said you replaced the starter and this is what cured my car...

I guess I'm wondering if there is a re-occuring theme as to when the car will start fine compareds to when it doesn't start?

 

[totaleclipse3]

Well when I first got my gst I had the same exact problem and then it stopped starting all together, then it was push starting for me. I too replaced the started but it turned out to be faulty wiring from the ignition. I ran a momentary switch from my starter to the battery and it has worked great for me ever since then, maybe give that a try. Wish I could help more!

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Sounds like something might not be grounded all the way?

Care to elaborate?

 

[laserspeeddemon]

What were the conditions when the car would start fine?

I had a similar situation where my car would start right up when it was cold. After it got up to operating temp during the summer months if i turned it off it would not start. However you said you replaced the starter and this is what cured my car...

There doesn't seem to be any constant conditions, other then when the car sits for a long time it ALWAYS would start, when the car is shut off it would start over and over again as many times with no problems. If the car sat for say 15-30 minutes it would start sometimes and not others.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Well when I first got my gst I had the same exact problem and then it stopped starting all together, then it was push starting for me. I too replaced the started but it turned out to be faulty wiring from the ignition. I ran a momentary switch from my starter to the battery and it has worked great for me ever since then, maybe give that a try. Wish I could help more!

I tired this, but wired it wrong, VERY wrong and ended up melting the push button. It did however start, but I couldn't be sure if this was a cure, because I could not repeat it. For all I knew, it was just one of those times that it started fine. I was planning on getting a real push button with a relay, but decided that before I take the backwards fix, I do it properly and then later I may install a professional kit.

 

[project15]

It's an ignition switch. I have the same problem and need to fix it.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220442&highlight=starting+click

 

[laserspeeddemon]

It's an ignition switch. I have the same problem and need to fix it.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220442&highlight=starting+click

I'm going to give you points, as this may be the possibility, but in my case, it was not. One of you was going in the right direction.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Ahhhhh, crap. Well, it looks like my solution didn't work after all. What I did was put an additional wire between the starter and the heat sheild and then ran it to the body on the drivers side. That seemed to work. But today, after work, the car did the same damn thing. Any who, I took project15's advice and replaced the switch (the actual key part as well as the backside). But when I put those peices in the Talon, it would start. With the Talons parts in the Eclipse...no start. So I know the problem is either the power wire going to the starter from the battery or the power wire going from the switch to the (relay and then to the) starters selinoid. So I am going to wire in a real starter button. Anyone know where I can get one that is illiminated?

 

[jott5555]

repalce the line between the batt and the starter, clean all contact's, usually the line's between the ign switch and starter dont go out.. unless someone has played around with them.. is there or has there ever been an alarm installed in the car.. it is possiable that the new starter you got is fulty.. i have had that happen to me several time's. maybe pull of the DMM and start checkin for a short..

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I benched tested both the old start and the new started the both worked fine (but the old starters gear was dragging). I have contuinuity from the postive terminal on the battery to the B+ Terminal on the starter. I also have continuity from the metal on the starter to the strut on the passenger side (means its grounded).

 

[gammey4]

My car had a similar problem, would only click when you turned the key. I pulled the starter out and it was a bad connection between the starter and relay. The wire on the relay that runs to the starter was dirty and didnt have a good enough connection. I took off the nut and sanded it and the the terminal and havent had a problem since. You might try that, I know its a new starter but I have bought a new starter that was bad and a new alternator that seized a bearing within a week of buying it.

 

[GTM]

Ahhhhh, crap. Well, it looks like my solution didn't work
...
But today, after work, the car did the same damn thing.
...

Why do I have difficulty with this thread when you give out points which _didn't_ fix the problem and don't know the answers??

Something is not computing with this concept which is like the blind leading the blind as they both fall off the cliff. A hundred posts later what then? You got 2 dozen people giving out points because it made sense to them which calls to question the ability to use good judgment.

I thought the idea here was to get qualified answers from qualified people rather than a bunch of 1 liner guessing that results in others wasting time and money following bad advice.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[lasertim]

Well I was going to suggest that you make sure the ground wire is still intact from the starter to the chassis but you have already nailed that.

It is not at all uncommon to have a battery drop from 12.6 to 12.2 volts when cranking, when it drops below 11 or so I would say you might have a problem. And the problem would be more than likely a battery.

The starter is a huge load on the battery and the cranking volts can drop a bit and still be fine.


In your first post you said there is a "klink" sound. Does it still do that? Are you missing a tooth or two in the flywheel?

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Why do I have difficulty with this thread when you give out points which _didn't_ fix the problem and don't know the answers??

Something is not computing with this concept which is like the blind leading the blind as they both fall off the cliff. A hundred posts later what then? You got 2 dozen people giving out points because it made sense to them which calls to question the ability to use good judgment.

I thought the idea here was to get qualified answers from qualified people rather than a bunch of 1 liner guessing that results in others wasting time and money following bad advice.

Cheers,
GTM

Well, I thought I had the solution. The problem went away for about a week and then just started doing it again. I thought this would be a good opportunity for some of the new guys to get some points. But it came back to biting me in the ass. I found the problem, but I am just going to by-pass it altogether with a push starter button.

 

[Talonman92]

I'm not familiar with this "push starter button". Does this mean you push a button to start the car now? Care to explain to a newb!?

 

[lasertim]

I'm not familiar with this "push starter button". Does this mean you push a button to start the car now? Care to explain to a newb!?

You pretty much nailed it. Most of the time you still use the key to unlock the steering column but a puch button is what actually starts the car.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I wired mine in last night. I works perfect. I had you use a 4-post, 30 amp relay, which I got at radio shack for $3, You figure in connectors and wire and I spent $10. I got an S2000 start button for about $15 on ebay. So total cost for me to install it $25.

The installation was kinda tricky because for the first time ever, I could not find a tech write-up for this. I had to wing it. So heres how I did it.

In the picture I got a 12v source connected to the button. I wired it into the green wire my turbo timer. This means that the button works with the key turned to the "ON" postion only.

Note: The S2000 has a third wire on the button, this gray wire just needs to be grounded

From the output side of the button I wired it into the 85 post on the relay.

The 86 post on the relay was grounded

The 30 post of the relay went to a fuse on the fuse box, which (when the button is pushed and the relay closes) sends power to the starter.

The 87 post of the relay goes to the starter, which replaces the signal wire to the solenoid (I also found this was the problem, it had no continuity).

All in all it wasn't hard. I will have a write-up in the near future in the tech forum and pictures later today.

 

[project15]

so you have to put the key in and then press the button? seems like extra work to accomplish the same result.

 

[GTM]

I wired mine in last night. I works perfect. I had you use a 4-post, 30 amp relay, which I got at radio shack for $3, You figure in connectors and wire and I spent $10. I got an S2000 start button for about $15 on ebay. So total cost for me to install it $25.

The installation was kinda tricky because for the first time ever, I could not find a tech write-up for this. I had to wing it. So heres how I did it.
...

The 86 post on the relay was grounded The 30 post of the relay went to a fuse on the fuse box, which (when the button is closed and the relay closes) sends power to the starter. The 87 post of the relay goes to the starter, which replaces the signal wire to the solenoid (I also found this was the problem, it had no continuity). All in all it wasn't hard. I will have a write-up in the near future in the tech forum and pictures later today.

I would suggest that you identify this as a temporary fix. In many states this may be considered illegal for it buypasses the clutch safety switch circuit and there may be other circuits involved.
.........

I'm sure there are plenty of people including myself who don't know what a "S2000" start button is. This is usually called a "horn button" (switch) and can be purchased as this. These can be found at automotive abd marine parts stores but there are some very poor quality brand X units which won't hold up to repeated use. I would think for the $15 you can buy a high qualite marine starter push button switch. The $3 relay is a bargain if it will too will hold up to repeated use.
.............

If you are going to put this in the tech section then make sure it's bullet proof, label all the connections so novices can understand them. Make sure the source can handle the additional load, AND make sure you suggest proper wire sizes. You don't want to piggy back off some source that will introduce additional problems and run the risk of damaging something else.

That's my 2¢
GTM