Hard time starting

[teevee]

After a recent crank pulley fell apart on me my car sat for awhile. After about a month of sitting there I replaced it with a newer one. Started her up and the lights and interior lights were very dim, drove it around and the volts were reading inbetween 7-9. After a few minute drive I pulled it in thinking it was just a dead battery. So now I got a new battery and the car wont even turn over now, it made one atempt that sounded like a slow motion attempt at a turn over. Now it just clicks when I try and start it. The volts are at 9 just sitting there for some reason it's not getting the full amount of volts. I checked my MPI fuse and it was okay. Any other suggestions? Again brand new battery, clean terminals, new spark plugs, but no start and weak volts.
I miss my car, let's get her back on the road.

 

[spoold]

Sounds as simple as an alternator, not charging the battery but the battery is holding a charge?

Did you check the alternator belt as well? If you just installed new pulleys, then the belt was probably replaced as well i assume? If the battery is new, and everything is clean terminal wise, the alternator not placing a charge on the system would definitly cause your symptoms, if not that, it may just be the alternator belt/tensioner. good luck!

 

[GTM]

...
Now it just clicks when I try and start it. The volts are at 9 just sitting there for some reason it's not getting the full amount of volts. I checked my MPI fuse and it was okay. Any other suggestions? Again brand new battery, clean terminals, new spark plugs, but no start and weak volts.
I miss my car, let's get her back on the road.

Put a volt meter on the battery _posts_ then check same on terminals. Check from Pos battery to the engine, then body, should be battery voltage. Check the B+ large terminal on Alternator to engine ground should be battery voltage. If zero volts, then main fuse 80-100 Amp is burned.

Let us know what you find.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[teevee]

Did a thorough job on cleaning the terminals again today just to be safe, and I also checked the alternator 80amp fuse which seemed to be okay. Gave it another shot at starting and this time the starter didn't even click like the day before, this time it made a wierd buzzing noise. The volts were reading in the low 7's now on my AFC. I'll pick up a volt meter and check it out.

 

[GTM]

Did a thorough job on cleaning the terminals again today just to be safe, and I also checked the alternator 80amp fuse which seemed to be okay. Gave it another shot at starting and this time the starter didn't even click like the day before, this time it made a wierd buzzing noise. The volts were reading in the low 7's now on my AFC. I'll pick up a volt meter and check it out.

I'm sorry, forgot to suggest you get a battery charge which is now quite evident. The buzzing sound is normal when the voltage gets so low it no longer can pull in the starter solenoid which is keyed off the starter relay which tries to activate but then the additional draw causes it to drop out. It's doing this at the rate of maybe 1000 times a second hence the buzz.

While it's possible the new battery is out to lunch my guess is the alternator or the alternator circuit is out to lunch. I prefer a test light for these initial checks but that's from a skilled source in recognizing minor light intensity differences. Where as a DVOM (digital volt~) may be a better choice when you need specific resistances or voltage known.

My initial guess after your latest inspection is the Alternator is out to lunch. But you must establish that the B+ large lead on the alternator does have the same voltage as the battery terminals. This is a very simple circuit, from battery, through the fuse to the alternator... actually the reverse is true for it's the batteries source of recharge.

Any questions, give us a shout and let us know your findings.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[teevee]

Took the alternator in today to get checked and it turned out to be good still. I picked up a voltmeter and a test light and will start checking for shorts and breaks in the circuit soon. Any tips on where to start first?

 

[gammey4]

xxxx

 

[GTM]

Took the alternator in today to get checked and it turned out to be good still. I picked up a voltmeter and a test light and will start checking for shorts and breaks in the circuit soon. Any tips on where to start first?

With your test light connected to ground you can probe the large terminal B+ on the alternator, probe the small Yellow lead. These both should be battery voltage. If no light on the B+ alternator wire then the 80 amp fuse is blown or an open circuit to the fuse.

Probe the BW (black with white trace) with the key off, should be no light / voltage. Turn the key on, should be dim light, if engine will run this should get brighter as RPM is increased. If all this is yes, then the alternator should charge.

If there is no light when testing the Yellow wire then the 30 amp fuse is blown or has an open circuit.

You could have done all of this without ever pulling the Alternator, who told you to do that??????????? You just wasted 2-3 hours out of your life for a 2 minute test. This is the problem listening to unqualified people giving unqualified advice, granted it would not fix the problem but you would know more than what you do at this point.

gammey4 If you had read the complaint you would have seen the car was running which rules out the battery was _dead_ . It didn't get charged when the car was running which is a completely different problem. One can only guess if the old battery was still good and the lack of charging drained that battery as well and a $7 test light with a little knowledge would have isolated the problem.

.....................................

Let us know what you find.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[gammey4]

xxxx

 

[GTM]

...
I would say the fuses are good. Low voltage with the lights on (and who knows what else) would be normal if he was running strictly off the alternator. If the alternator wasnt charging at all it would have drained the battery and left the car dead on the side of the road. Put the battery on a charger or get a jump from somebody and see if the new battery holds a charge.

I don't know how you can conclude the fuses are good until he tests them. I've only been doing this for 40 years and can't arrive at the same conclusion. Making blanket statements such as this is not in the best interest of problem solving. There are 2, 30 amp fuses, 1, 10 amp fuse, plus an alternator relay and the 80 amp.

A good Alternator only draws a few watts so by it's self would take days to run a battery down. An alternator can charge without a battery and run a car all day long as long as the RPM is kept up. It, can run wild without a regulator producing 120 volts DC or AC if the diodes are bypassed. It can self excite from the rotor having the slightest residual magnetism in the rotor.

Cheers,
GTM

PS I did confuse which thread the poster had driven whth the new battery which didn't happen in this case.
GTM

 

[gammey4]

xxxx

 

[teevee]

Okay I put the alternator back in, and tested the B+ terminal with the test light. A light did come on, so that means the 80amp fuse is still working right? As far as the BW wire goes I dont exactly know where that is. Is it part of the snap in harness or the B+ wires?
Also I gave starting the car a shot hoping for a miracle and there was no noise what so ever. As soon as tried to turn it on everything just clicked off.

I appreciate all of your help guys!

 

[GTM]

...
A light did come on, so that means the 80amp fuse is still working right? As far as the BW wire goes I dont exactly know where that is. Is it part of the snap in harness or the B+ wires?
Also I gave starting the car a shot hoping for a miracle and there was no noise what so ever. As soon as tried to turn it on everything just clicked off.

I appreciate all of your help guys!

Yes there is a circuit through the 80 A fuse.

The Yellow and the BW are the 2 wires that plug into the back of the alternator.

The Yellow will also have the same power (voltage as the B+) at all times UNLESS the 30 Amp fuse is burned at the "sub fusable link" which then has 7 fuses, #4 is the only Yellow wire and 1 of 3, 30 A fuses in that block which is not the same as the 80 Amp block.

The BW comes from the alternator relay coil and eventually back to the ignition switch. This is part of the ignition control, MPI and MPI control relay.

This will only come on when the key is turned on and will be dim when the engine is _not_ running. When running it will get brighter as the output increases, part of that circuit is your charging light/meter.

Hope that's clear.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[GTM]

I also wasnt making "blanket statements", simply asking him to check the condition of his new battery before proceeding. All the fuse/relay checks in the world wont help if he doesnt have 12 volts to check them with. Im not trying to argue with you, just telling him to use a know good battery and go from there.

I don't know what else to call it when you state "I would say the fuses are good." That isn't a maybe, there is no misunderstanding... the fuses are good is a blanket statement and is misleading. The fuses don't give a hoot if they have 1 volt or 200 volts, the only thing that matters is the relay coil passes current/volts. I doesn't have to activate any contacts for it's just an electromagnet. Thus if it's enough to light the test light then it's good but it _most certainly_ does not have to be 12v as you state in this post. I've been diagnosing this alternator design for 30 years when I discovered the test I've outlined in my previous posts.

I keep repeating myself, post what you know is an absolute rather than digging holes that don't help anyone. This site has a "Before You Reply" advisory in red just above this window, look at #3 and understand that it upsets staff when wrong or incorrect info is given. Get a schematic, understand basics and the logic involved.

It makes it increasingly difficult if I'm having to correct you/anyone and then try to solve the problem at the same time. As you read through this site you will see the gray boxes, the green boxes and the red boxes under members names. Those who have red boxes have repeatedly violated the above rules.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[gammey4]

I didnt know that asking him to check his battery was bad advice, but i will withdrawl anything I've said.

 

[teevee]

We have finals this week so I've been a little swamped but I was able to do the check on the two wires today. ( Sorry I thought there was three but it was just the wire that goes to the power steering. ) The yellow wire would light up the tester, and the BW wire was dim with the engine off. I then checked the battery volts and the new battery was showing 8 or 9 while the old was a perfect 12 on the voltmeter. So I swapped in the old battery which was showing around 10ish volts on the AFC and gave it another go, a couple slow motion starts then it started doing the clicking once more. Does this point in the direction of the starter? Or perhaps a relay?

 

[gammey4]

charge your battery or get a jump

 

[GTM]

charge your battery or get a jump

I'm so square I have 90 degree corners. I have no tollerance for this crap, either support your statement, ask questions, or make a fornicating lunge at the moon.

Those of us who try to help are not ashamed or what we do or who we are.

I'm almost of the conclusion that you and the original poster are plants trying to get a TV show script published. I've been down this path before and increasingly less tolerant of jerks who would profit off my knowledge. Either conduct yourself responsibly or leave. One more nonproductive post, no wonder there ar 3,000 search results.

This is my last with you, you are not the tail that waggs this old dog. If you are smart you will never behave this way on this site again.

As always the original poster is the one who looses while YOU attempt to score brownie points. Stand up, solidify answers, but DO not pull this S*it with I'm smarter than you. Your contricious(sp) previous post was intended to provoke this is non productive save for you now know what is expected. If I see another manipulative post I will ask others to watch you. Have a nice day. You will never be granted the tolerance I've shown, ... solve his problem.
GTM

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

charge your battery or get a jump

GTM said this like 10 posts ago. You report this thread but you are wrong. Please just stop posting in this thread.