So I Wasted My Money

[Slammed0]

Yep on buying a fuel pump. Oh well, I got a excellent price on it anyways. However, it didn't fix the problem.

My low fuel light keeps flashing on and off (even with plenty of gas in tank) and it also will accompany fuel cut or lack of horsepower. So I thought, well hell it must be the fuel pump. Why would the sender be directing the pump on how to act?? Well, I guess I was wrong. Maybe it does. So maybe I should replace the sender next. I also have maybe heard briefly about a fuel pressure regulator but don't really know much about it. I think I read it was on top of our fuel filters. I already replaced the fuel pump and filter so far.

Somebody on another board mentioned maybe the fuel pump relay. Where can I find this? Thank you!

96 2.0 N/T

 

[wimploki]

Yep on buying a fuel pump. Oh well, I got a excellent price on it anyways. However, it didn't fix the problem.

My low fuel light keeps flashing on and off (even with plenty of gas in tank) and it also will accompany fuel cut or lack of horsepower. So I thought, well hell it must be the fuel pump. Why would the sender be directing the pump on how to act?? Well, I guess I was wrong. Maybe it does. So maybe I should replace the sender next. I also have maybe heard briefly about a fuel pressure regulator but don't really know much about it. I think I read it was on top of our fuel filters. I already replaced the fuel pump and filter so far.

Somebody on another board mentioned maybe the fuel pump relay. Where can I find this? Thank you!

96 2.0 N/T

Lots of parts to choose from here - www.rockauto.com

 

[luv2rallye]

Yes the FPR is on top of your fuel filter (for NT) and is a prime suspect. A primer suspect would be a faulty fuel pump relay, which for NT, is the inner relay of 3 located on the firewall engine side in front of driver. Another possibility is a broken fuel pickup tube in the tank which may account for the gas light on/off. Does problem occur only when accelerating/decelerating or turning left/right (gas is sloshing around in tank)? How about at idle after car hasn't moved for more than a minute?

 

[Slammed0]

Yes the FPR is on top of your fuel filter (for NT) and is a prime suspect. A primer suspect would be a faulty fuel pump relay, which for NT, is the inner relay of 3 located on the firewall engine side in front of driver. Another possibility is a broken fuel pickup tube in the tank which may account for the gas light on/off. Does problem occur only when accelerating/decelerating or turning left/right (gas is sloshing around in tank)? How about at idle after car hasn't moved for more than a minute?

You know it never really seems to act up at just idle. Just when I am driving it seems to do it on and off. Some drives worst than others. Also under extreme loads, like if I floor it to get onto the freeway. That is why it has me so stumped. But I am going to look into the relay this weekend.

I figure relay cause the 2 (sender and pump) act up together. Now why would they do that so perfect it they don't talk to each other. Fuel light will flash and I will expereince loss of power of fuel cut. So I think that they are on the same circuit and when they loose that connection (via the relay) they act up simitaniously.

 

[luv2rallye]

Also under extreme loads, like if I floor it to get onto the freeway...

I figure relay cause the 2 (sender and pump) act up together. Now why would they do that so perfect it they don't talk to each other. Fuel light will flash and I will expereince loss of power of fuel cut. So I think that they are on the same circuit and when they loose that connection (via the relay) they act up simitaniously.

NO - The low fuel level sender is NOT connected electrically in any way to the FP or FP relay. It is a thermistor inside the tank (physically attached to the fuel gauge unit) and is only wired to the low fuel level light on the dash and for NT also to the PCM pin 23. Your problem sounds like either a flakey ground connection at the tank (for the FP and low fuel level sender grounds) or the pump and low fuel level sender have partially/completely broken off their mountings and are wobbling around in the tank. The ground should be easy to test with a meter. For the pump and sender you will have to open the access hole on top of the tank (under rear seat). Does your fuel gauge act funny also? You can prove it's not the FP relay by just bypassing it.

 

[Slammed0]

NO - The low fuel level sender is NOT connected electrically in any way to the FP or FP relay. It is a thermistor inside the tank (physically attached to the fuel gauge unit) and is only wired to the low fuel level light on the dash and for NT also to the PCM pin 23. Your problem sounds like either a flakey ground connection at the tank (for the FP and low fuel level sender grounds) or the pump and low fuel level sender have partially/completely broken off their mountings and are wobbling around in the tank. The ground should be easy to test with a meter. For the pump and sender you will have to open the access hole on top of the tank (under rear seat). Does your fuel gauge act funny also? You can prove it's not the FP relay by just bypassing it.

No the fuel level indicator itself doesn't seem like it is off. And the pump has been replaced, so I know it is not the pump. Never did pull out and look at the sending unit. But I sway from that cause why would it have anything to do with my motor having loss of power/fuel cut.

BTW, I really appreciate your time with helping me.

 

[Slammed0]

Ok UPDATE


So I found the 2 relays (there are only 2 on my car) and replaced them both. Unfortunately, Autozone didn't have the exact OEM replacement part. So I got a generic that was the exact same thing. Or so it seemed. A 12 volt 30 amp relay. As soon as I replaced them both and started my car the check engine light came on. So I scanned this:

PO352
The PCM has determined that a malfunction exists in the primary or secondary electrical circuits for ignition coil "b"


So...................whatever that means. This whole thing about has me pulling out my hair. So, I just put the stock relays back on for now. If I replace them again I will get them from the dealer. Or maybe they worked and allowed a CEL code to come through and I need to replace my ignition coil. Who knows?????

 

[luv2rallye]

The 97 manual shows 3 relays on the firewall next to the brake master cyl., the inner one being fuel pump relay (middle is ASD and outer is ETAX). This is where you say are only 2? You do have a 96 non-turbo right? The ASD runs the coils and injectors. If you replace relays with non-oem ones, make sure the pins have the same function. They should be normally open contacts and there should be continuity (some low resistance) between 2 pins (which is the relays coil). The other 2 pins should be an open circuit to any other pin.

When/after what did this problem start? The low fuel level light I can't explain unless there's some intermittent short (which may be in the gas tank or along the wire to the light) that happens when the car shakes.

Another possiblility is the PCM (for NT, turbos have an ECU) is detecting excessive engine knock and shutting off the fuel pump and ASD relays (then knock dissappears so it turns them on again, then off, then on, etc, etc, etc). It may be real or a faulty knock sensor. I would disconnect the sensor to test this. The book shows it has a 2 pin connector and is on the rear side of the block under the intake manifold down low. The wires are black/green and white/yellow.

 

[Slammed0]

The 97 manual shows 3 relays on the firewall next to the brake master cyl., the inner one being fuel pump relay (middle is ASD and outer is ETAX). This is where you say are only 2? You do have a 96 non-turbo right? The ASD runs the coils and injectors. If you replace relays with non-oem ones, make sure the pins have the same function. They should be normally open contacts and there should be continuity (some low resistance) between 2 pins (which is the relays coil). The other 2 pins should be an open circuit to any other pin.

When/after what did this problem start? The low fuel level light I can't explain unless there's some intermittent short (which may be in the gas tank or along the wire to the light) that happens when the car shakes.

Another possiblility is the PCM (for NT, turbos have an ECU) is detecting excessive engine knock and shutting off the fuel pump and ASD relays (then knock dissappears so it turns them on again, then off, then on, etc, etc, etc). It may be real or a faulty knock sensor. I would disconnect the sensor to test this. The book shows it has a 2 pin connector and is on the rear side of the block under the intake manifold down low. The wires are black/green and white/yellow.

I can't remember anything off the top of my head that might have happened for all this to start. But ya, I have a 96 2.0 N/T and I only have 2 relays on the drivers side firewall. I do appreciate your help. I really don't know where to go from here but to start trying to test some things out with a voltmeter and/or checking out all my wiring. Seems like everything I try leads to more and more open possibilites. The relays looked to me like the exact same thing and had the same numbers imprinted next to the pins. But as soon as I changed it the CEL came on. Another possibility. Hooray !!

 

[Iannelli828]

Wasting money is a common thing if your not a DSM everyday wrencher

 

[luv2rallye]

I just saw another '96 NT post who has only 2 relays on the firewall so they must have changed it in '97. If you still think it's a fuel problem why not measure the fuel pressure at the rail while you rev it and shake the car? You are going to have to figure out if it's lack of fuel or something else (like PCM shutting things down). How long ago did you replace the pump? Did you check the fuel pickup sock in the tank to make sure it's not clogged? And that things in there are not moving around? If you think the FP relay is turning the fuel pump off, connect a meter or light to the black/blue wire on that relay (which goes to the pump) with the other side to ground. It should go on and off with the pump. You could bring this meter or light in the car with you while you drive around and watch it.

 

[Slammed0]

I just saw another '96 NT post who has only 2 relays on the firewall so they must have changed it in '97. If you still think it's a fuel problem why not measure the fuel pressure at the rail while you rev it and shake the car? You are going to have to figure out if it's lack of fuel or something else (like PCM shutting things down). How long ago did you replace the pump? Did you check the fuel pickup sock in the tank to make sure it's not clogged? And that things in there are not moving around? If you think the FP relay is turning the fuel pump off, connect a meter or light to the black/blue wire on that relay (which goes to the pump) with the other side to ground. It should go on and off with the pump. You could bring this meter or light in the car with you while you drive around and watch it.

Ya I think I will try those things. I have to order the relays as they are not in stock at the local dealer. So it will be a few days or a week before I see if that helps. Also, I think I need to take my time to check all the wiring. Need to make sure nothing happened to it. And just for the h*ll of it I think I am going to replace my spark plugs, wires, and ignition coil. Even if they aren't the source atleast it will be going towards a tune up anyways.
Thanks again for all your time. I will let you know if I come across anything.

 

[Slammed0]

Hey this is probably a very stupid question but I wanted to make sure. When I start my car I can hear a clicking under the dash. So I found it to be a relay that is located under the dash directly about the fuse box. It says power relay on it. It was kinda warm to the touch. Now I realize this is probably just a starter relay, but could it be running anything else?

 

[luv2rallye]

If its the upper right one of 4, that's your power windows relay.