can't go over 2000rpm and no boost

[anubis]

i just finished my first turbo-charged dsm engine rebuild. had a lot of problems, but finally got it running. i took it for a test drive and i have a couple more problems now that i can't figure out. i am new to the turbo world of dsm, so i don't know much about turbo diagnostics. here's my trouble:

1) the car won't go over 2000rpm. it'll get there slowly, but then it bogs down and won't go any further. it's like that in every gear. i can get to 2000 in 1st, then shift and go to 2000 in 2nd and it bogs down. repeats all the way to 4th. i didn't bother with 5th.

2) no boost. the stock boost gauge is reading -7 (the very bottom of the gauge) and it's stuck there. when i start it, it goes to 0 and then once it's running, it's back to -7.

3) i think i'm running rich. there is moisture coming from a couple cracks in the manifold. it appears to be coming from the inside. too much fuel is the only thing that i can think that it could be right now.

the car is stock with a few exceptions: 2g pistons, p&p head, ffwd level 1 regrind cams, 3" downpipe (with cat eliminator) and a 3" muffler man cat-back with no muffler (this cat-back is temporary). i have an safcII wired up, but it's unplugged because i have not had time to set it up.

i don't know what the problem(s) is(are). i did search but couldn't find anything useful. i'm going to go check the intercooler pipes to make sure they're all hooked up nicely and try to get the safc tuned up. until then any help would be appreciated. thanks.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

You have a massive boost leak, Check all your ic pipe connections.

 

[anubis]

rev problem is taken care of. it was definitely the safc. still no boost though . it's no longer in vacuum all the time. when i'm driving, it's getting to atmosphere now. i checked my ic pipes and they all appear to be connected properly. i'm going to have to figure out how to do a boost leak check. if anyone has a link, i would surely appreciate it.

it sucks driving a turbo with no boost. it's even slower than driving my non-turbo. i'll continue to do research and try to figure out what's going on. i'm going to have to drive the 240 back to college again and try to fix the laser next weekend.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/ICtester.html

There you go. was the sputter caused by your car's safc not being on karmen reading? That's what happen to me in my previous car but i didn't even think about posting it until you mentioned it.

 

[anubis]

There you go. was the sputter caused by your car's safc not being on karmen reading?

thanks for the link. i tried unsuccessfully to find a vfaq for that... anyways, about the safc, it was not plugged in at all. i wasn't sure if it would help when trying to get the engine to fire. especially since i didn't set it up. i was concerned however that the intercepted signal (from the maf) would not be jumped because i didn't think the circuit would be closed. it probably wasn't because after i got the safc plugged in and setup, it worked fine.

thanks for the help. i won't be able to do the leak test until next weekend, so if anyone else has any ideas for what the problem might be, please say so.

 

[anubis]

ok, let's just assume that my boost problem is not from a leak. what else could be the problem. i'm going to be going home this weekend (from college) to work on the car and i really need to drive it back. so i don't want to have to spend my weekend on tuners waiting for other suggestions. i am going to do the boost leak test as soon as i get home, but IF i don't have a leak i want to know what else to check out.

thanks.

 

[Flip_4G63]

Here you go man

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=201554

Here is the one on VFAQ

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/ICtester.html

Dumb question but is your mass air plugged in? That would also act like that i forgot it once and did the same thing.

 

[ddavisaf]

IF you don't have a leak, I'll be damn surprised.
Run a boost leak test, use soapy water to visually check for leaks. You need to be able to hold 20 psi for a minimum of 30 seconds steadily.
Post back your results. Test from the LICP, not the turbo inlet. I don't wanna explain the oil bubbling thing again

 

[anubis]

first, thanks flip, i allready used those to build my own tester.

yes the maf is plugged in. that wouldn't effect whether or not i had boost. that may have been the problem with the rpms, which, in a sense, was the problem. with the safc unplugged, the maf is not sending a signal to the ecu because the signal is intercepted and modified by the safc before being forwarded to the ecu. with the safc unplugged, the maf signal can't get to the ecu. i plugged the maf back in and tuned it up - problem solved.

IF you don't have a leak, I'll be damn surprised.
Run a boost leak test, use soapy water to visually check for leaks. You need to be able to hold 20 psi for a minimum of 30 seconds steadily.
Post back your results. Test from the LICP, not the turbo inlet. I don't wanna explain the oil bubbling thing again

all right, i'll try the test on the licp. what's the reasoning behind that?

the reason i asked what else it could be was: if i had a boost leak, wouldn't i still be getting some boost? i've got nothing. is the system that picky about leaks? i checked all my pipes and connections and they all "appeared" to be ok. I WILL DO A BOOST LEAK TEST, but what else could it be? is that the only problem, a boost leak? i just want to be prepared for anything when i go to work on the car.

thanks for the help so far. i'll be sure to post my results when i get the car running correctly.

 

[ddavisaf]

You and your damn quest for knowledge

When you test from the turbo inlet you will always have air bypass the rings due to lack of oil. It's perfectly normal, however people get freaked out because the air will "bubble" the oil in the oil pan. By testing at the LICP instead of the turbo inlet you will not have air from the turbo going into the oil pan causing the "bubbling" sound. If you do hear it when testing from the LICP it indicates a more specific problem such as your piston rings, or pcv, etc.
Looking for boost leaks isn't always accurate. That's why we want you to test it with the tester. I had a massive boost leak from my J pipe that I could not see, but I was losing alot of boost.

So, with the SAFC plugged back in, what are the new symptoms?

 

[anubis]

You and your damn quest for knowledge

When you test from the turbo inlet you will always have air bypass the rings due to lack of oil. It's perfectly normal, however people get freaked out because the air will "bubble" the oil in the oil pan. By testing at the LICP instead of the turbo inlet you will not have air from the turbo going into the oil pan causing the "bubbling" sound. If you do hear it when testing from the LICP it indicates a more specific problem such as your piston rings, or pcv, etc.

all right, makes sense. thanks.

Looking for boost leaks isn't always accurate. That's why we want you to test it with the tester. I had a massive boost leak from my J pipe that I could not see, but I was losing alot of boost.

i understand.

So, with the SAFC plugged back in, what are the new symptoms?

my only symptoms now are no boost and a check engine light. i'll check both of those out tonight and hopefully take care of my problems. i would have taken care of the check engine light last week, but i couldn't find my diagnostic scanner (read pezzo buzzer) to plug into and read the diagnostic codes. i'll pick up a new one on my way home and the rest of the hardware i need to finish making my boost leak tester. i'll update with results after i get them.

 

[bigblock]

this is probably not the problem but the the actuator hooked up I forgot to put the pin in once and it fell off, the car ran great but would not spool, it is worth checking

 

[ddavisaf]

Actually, after this next boost leak test, that is the next step. Good job

 

[anubis]

this is probably not the problem but the the actuator hooked up I forgot to put the pin in once and it fell off, the car ran great but would not spool, it is worth checking

hopefully when i get home and look at it, i'll understand what you're saying... but i'm having trouble figuring out what you're talking about. let me see if i can clear this up:
there is a pin somewhere on the wastegate actuator assembly that i should check. is that what you mean?

 

[oldman]

1. What is the purpose of the safc when you still have stock injectors?

2. Is the safc zeroed out as it should be?

3. Was the car running fine before the turbo rebuilt? Did you perform the rebuilt? Was it properly balanced by a shop?

4. List any other problems you had before the turbo rebuilt?

I do like how anal everyone is about boost leak test , it used to be so much more difficult to convince someone to leak test.

 

[anubis]

1. What is the purpose of the safc when you still have stock injectors?

2. Is the safc zeroed out as it should be?

3. Was the car running fine before the turbo rebuilt? Did you perform the rebuilt? Was it properly balanced by a shop?

4. List any other problems you had before the turbo rebuilt?

I do like how anal everyone is about boost leak test , it used to be so much more difficult to convince someone to leak test.

1. i allready had it. i installed it when i didn't have anything to do on the rebuild because i was waiting for parts. i have plans for upgrading the fuel and air systems so i figured it was better to install it now.

2. to the best of my knowledge. i didn't mess with it much. i don't see how this would help with me not getting any boost though... if this would have anything to do with it, please tell me. (i'm not trying to be a cocky bastard here, i'm just confused by this...) oh, unless it might have something to do with the check engine light... still, more explanation.

3. didn't rebuild the turbo. i rebuilt the rest of the engine. turbo worked fine before the rebuild, so i saw no need to tear it apart.

4. spun a balance shaft bearing. other than that... i think the guy i bought it from blew off one of his ic pipes because it wasn't clamped on all the way, but he fixed that before the b-shaft took a crap on him.

 

[anubis]

forgot to mention. i didn't get a chance to do the test or pull the code. i didn't get home until 9:30 and i had to go see my fiance. in the morning i have to go get some air for the boost leak test and a new buzzer for collecting codes. i'll update and let you all know what i find. please, if you can think of any other things to check, say something.

 

[Thomas91169]

if you have a safc but it wasnt plugged in, that would account for youre car running like ass and not going over 2k. if the safc isnt plugged in, the reading from the mas to the ecu is broken, so its basically like unplugging your mas.

if the car is now running through the rpm band smoothly but not creating boost, its either a boost leak or a problem with the wastegate staying open.

btw did you rebuild the turbo, what kind is it?

 

[anubis]

if you have a safc but it wasnt plugged in, that would account for youre car running like ass and not going over 2k. if the safc isnt plugged in, the reading from the mas to the ecu is broken, so its basically like unplugging your mas.

if the car is now running through the rpm band smoothly but not creating boost, its either a boost leak or a problem with the wastegate staying open.

btw did you rebuild the turbo, what kind is it?

W T F?! READ THE MY OTHER POSTS ON THIS THREAD! it's not just you thomas, it's everyone. I FRICKIN KNOW HOW THE SAFC WORKS AND I ALL READY SOLVED THAT PROBLEM. I KNOW IT'S EITHER A BOOST LEAK OR THE WASTEGATE. i'm trying to figure out if there are any other possible solutions.

thomas, for the second time: no, i did not rebuild the turbo. it's the stock 14b.

 

[oldman]

i just finished my first turbo rebuild. had a lot of problems, but finally got it running. i took it for a test drive and i have a couple more problems now that i can't figure out. i am new to the turbo world of dsm, so i don't know much about turbo diagnostics. here's my trouble:

Relax, people are just trying to help. The reason people keep thinking it's the turbo and not the motor that was rebuilt is because that's what it says on the first line of your post.

 

[anubis]

i know you are all trying to help, and i appreciate it. i'm just getting frustrated with getting the exact same suggestions from people, especially about the problem i all ready remedied.

Relax, people are just trying to help. The reason people keep thinking it's the turbo and not the motor that was rebuilt is because that's what it says on the first line of your post.

i see how that might confuse people. thanks for pointing that out. i just edited my initial post. i should clear this up...

everyone, i rebuilt the engine on the turbo-charged dsm. i did not rebuild the turbo. i apologize for any confusion that i'm sure this caused. i'll try to not substitute the noun "turbo" for the nouns "engine" and "automobile" as i often do when referring to a turbo charged vehicle.

i'm about to go do my boost leak test right now. i'll be back in a while to update. i did get my diagnostic codes: 31 - knock sensor. i'm going to check that out to.

i also need to go help my friend(who i bought the knock sensor from) pull his head so we can sell it. busy day.

 

[oldman]

No problem, let us know the out come of the boost leak test.

 

[anubis]

so far the boost leak test has been inconclusive. i don't think my tiny air compressor has the ability to put enough air in the system. not only that, i think my home-made tester isn't very good either. i think i'm going to rebuild the tester and make it a little more air tight. i can't, for the life of me, figure out what's wrong with the knock sensor. i may have to buy a new one. i'm going to finish up re-routing some wires and then put it all back together and try to drive it to my fiance's house so i can remake my boost leak tester and use a good air compressor. hopefully nothing blows up.

quick question. at what rpm should i feel the boost, if i had any? i took it for a little spin after i cleared the ecu. it seems really sluggish when i give it gas and boost will "build" from -7 to 0 and not go much over 0. i didn't take it over 3000rpm. i thought that i remember boosting around 1500-2000rpm back when the car was drivable tough.

 

[oldman]

If the knock sensor is defective, it will cause the ecu to pull timing, that might be a part of your problem besides boost leaks. This is the reason why I asked you about your safc setting earlier. Stock injectors should require no adjustments on the afc, if you had to make any adjustments to it in order to help keep the car running, you're simply trying to cover up the problem rather than discovering it, best to zero out the afc so all problems can be revealed. Unless you can borrow a logger, I suggest testing out a known good knock sensor and see what happens.

 

[anubis]

If the knock sensor is defective, it will cause the ecu to pull timing, that might be a part of your problem besides boost leaks. This is the reason why I asked you about your safc setting earlier. Stock injectors should require no adjustments on the afc, if you had to make any adjustments to it in order to help keep the car running, you're simply trying to cover up the problem rather than discovering it, best to zero out the afc so all problems can be revealed. Unless you can borrow a logger, I suggest testing out a known good knock sensor and see what happens.

it's like you read my mind. i'm going to pick up a new knock sensor tomorrow, hopefully it is the right one. i had to talk to the manager of advance auto parts because they weren't going to let me order parts without up front payment. oh yeah, the manager... clueless. anyways, i thought that the knock sensor may be part of my problems also as i did some research on those this afternoon too. tomorrow afternoon, i'm going to read up on my safc and make sure everything is "zeroed" after i try the new knock sensor.

i did notice that the car was starting to boost around 2500rpm. i don't want to take it over 3000 before it's properly broken in. i've still got a lot of small bugs to work out. i'm tired of working on the car tonight so my fiance and i are going out. i'll be back on tomorrow sometime.