VERY Noisly Valvetrain...Lifters??

[joeym4130]

Hopefully I don't get yelled at, but I couldn't find a thread w exactly what I was looking for but 'here goes:

Driving home the other day and the car felt slow, so i looked at the logger, 43 knock count. I turn my head to the side and at a certain angle I can make out a ticking sound, a very very faint sound from inside the car while driving. At first I thought rod, but wasn't sure, I couldnt pull over anyway, and made it home fine.

The sound was coming and going during the drive home, it would tick, then go away, then come back. Hm.

I have been busy this weekend and haven't been able to do anymore with it, but today I started it in the morning and it had NO tick. Then I let it idle just to see, and 5 mins later as the car was CLOSE to temperature, It was ticking loudly again, in the back of the valve cover area, near the intake mani. It is definately coming from the head, not the bottom end.

Just weird it happens as the car is almost warmed up, and NOT at cold start...

I always had tick, but only on cold starts, and when it was cold. It would go away after warming up. Any suggestions on what I can go about checking tomorrow? I was planning on pulling the Valve cover off to see if anything looks fishy. Hoping I could get more ideas thrown around if there is anything else I should check or look for. Thanks.

 

[joeym4130]

UPDATE:


I took all the lifters out and cleaned them, and put them back in...still ticking...

Next I guess I'll try getting the revised lifters....I wanted to do that anyway.


Edit:

Drove it for about 15 mins. It seems quieter then before, but could just be wishful thinking. The sound I have pinpointed to around Cyl #1 on the upper part (closest to the dash) of the valve cover.

Is it possible that one lifter is messed up, which causes the ticking?? Or a rocker arm? I'm going to double check again tonight, that everything is tight. I thought maybe a rocker arm could be worn down on the part that hits the valve and might be sliding back and fourth, but i'm just guessing now.

Is there any other suggestions on what to check about for?? I am thoroughly convinced it's in the valve train, but PLEASE, if anyone has better ideas PUH-LEASE elaborate!! Thanks!

 

[Screamin Eagle]

I have ticky lifters also. What oil weight are you using? I was using a heavier weight and switched to 10w 30 synthetic and it helped. Also, check for exhaust leaks, sometimes that can create a ticking nois that the knock sensor might pick up as knock. Have you changed your knock sensor lately?? If not, you can do that also. If you are experiencing 43 counts of knock, then it is definately not real knock.

 

[joeym4130]

Yeah its not real knock, with it being 43, or i'd have a bad motor!!

I just figured it was from the ticking/clacking noise, being picked up as phantom knock.

I'm using 10w30, non-synthetic, been using it for over a year, with no problems until this one a couple days ago.

No exhaust leaks, the loudness of the noise is coming from intake side of the head, and is too 'metal' like to be a exhaust leak.

I hope my timing belt didn't jump. Could this cause the problem? Say, if it was a tooth off? Off to the garage to double check.....

 

[Screamin Eagle]

Try your base timing, also try listening to the oil pan. See if the ticking is coming from there, if it is, you could have possibly spun a bearing causing it to tick and its could be picked up as knock. Have you changed the knock sensor? Have any metal flakes in your oil lately?? Timing should be set at 5 degrees

 

[joeym4130]

Well I just changed the oil the day after the ticking started, and I combed it for metal flakes, found none, and the ticking isn't from the bottom end (thank goodness)

I took the lifters out from cyl # 1, where the ticking seemed to be coming from, and blasted them out with some cleaner, I noticed a chunk fly out.

After about an hour of driving the ticking is pretty much unnoticable. But still there at lower RPM's/oil pressure. So She is almost back to normal. Just have to bear with the knock at the low RPM's.

My knock sensor may need to be changed also, might do that just to be safe, I doubt the think has ever been changed in it's 100k miles of life. I know duringr the motor rebuild I never changed it!

 

[Defiant]

It can also be a burned valve or exhaust leak. Pinpoint exactly where it's coming from, and do a compression test.

 

[joeym4130]

I have eliminated the possibility of an exhaust leak, it's definately on the intake side of the motor,

will do a compression test, hopefully by the end of the week, didn't think of that

have to wait for my parents to ship up the rest of my tools to my apartment..including my compression tester. Gosh that would be nice if it's a lifter problem now that i'm dreading doing a compression test

Thanks guys, i'll post back when I do that.

 

[VBGSX]

Well I just changed the oil the day after the ticking started, and I combed it for metal flakes, found none, and the ticking isn't from the bottom end (thank goodness)

I took the lifters out from cyl # 1, where the ticking seemed to be coming from, and blasted them out with some cleaner, I noticed a chunk fly out.

After about an hour of driving the ticking is pretty much unnoticable. But still there at lower RPM's/oil pressure. So She is almost back to normal. Just have to bear with the knock at the low RPM's.

My knock sensor may need to be changed also, might do that just to be safe, I doubt the think has ever been changed in it's 100k miles of life. I know duringr the motor rebuild I never changed it!

I think you're on the right track.
Like you, I had Phantom knock in the lower RPM's. I also cleaned them, etc but it still came back. I put the 3rd Generation lifters in($138) myself and every ounce of Phantom knock was gone. It was a night and day difference. Also if you still have old lifters in there, might as well replace them since they're inexpensive.


As Defiant mentioned, it could also possibly be a valve(carbon buildup on them, etc).
It never hurts to run some MCCC or Seafoam through there. For the cost of a can of either, you can't go wrong.

Good luck

 

[2GeNTSi]

I actually took a look at my knock sensor today...I could see it between the starter and the ac, there is some oil seeping out of it. I'm assuming my problem with timing being pulled lies there, I don't have any lifter tick so HOPEFULLY all my problems will be solved with this.

Seems a little difficult to reach though, anyone ever change it without the engine out?

 

[joeym4130]

I actually took a look at my knock sensor today...I could see it between the starter and the ac, there is some oil seeping out of it. I'm assuming my problem with timing being pulled lies there, I don't have any lifter tick so HOPEFULLY all my problems will be solved with this.

Seems a little difficult to reach though, anyone ever change it without the engine out?

That goo is what happens when the sensor goes bad, i think it is some silicone or sealant thing.

Anyway, I replaced mine just last week on my AWD talon, it was leaking goo and getting lots of knock. I always read about taking the Intake mani and related items off, but I had my girlfriend get her small arm down there put a small wrench (15/16 think?) down on it, from the driver side, and I just wrenched it out. It shouldn't be torqued in tight unless corroded. Then got my arm back down and hand threaded the new one in, and snugged it up, but not tight. I don't even know if there is a torque spec, but over at the Yahoo Phantom Knock group, everyone reccomends to hand tighten it, then snug it with a wrench, just don't make it too tight.

But I don't know if you have less room in a 2g or anything

 

[2GeNTSi]

Hmmmm guess I should go ahead and order one then. I could almost touch it with my hand reaching from under but it'll be easier from up top even though I can't see it (much easier to reach). So what they are like 80 bucks? I'll do that then I guess a new IAC soon.

 

[Spyydie98]

did you get it fixed? I just got my knock sensor (like $57 from rockvillemistubishi.com) for my 2g. I just want to know how much of a PITA it is to get to on a 2G.

 

[ADrewzki]

Wasn't too bad when I did mine the other day. I opted to drop the exhaust and take off the small metal bracket that holds the intake mani to the block. Once those were taken out, there was a good amount of room for me to get my arm in there and take the old one off.

 

[Spyydie98]

I assume you did this all from under your car with it on jackstands?