Won't start, no spark.

kevingst · 03-26-2005, 01:37 PM

I've got a '95 Gst with a 6bolt running dsmlink. So last night I'm coming home from work jamming out to Tool. Run the car up to about 100, put it in 5th and coast down to about 80. At 80, I get back on the gas but nothing happens. Come to a stop and the car just turns over and won't start. Call up the wife, she brings the truck and we push it the rest of the 2 miles home. I've got oil, I've got fuel. I don't have spark. Haven't even bothered looking at the plugs yet. Verified no spark from wires to ground. Wires are good. Checked resistance on the coil pack, within limits. Checked the transistor pack, it reads out good. How exactly do I go about making sure the ecu is sending spark to the plug that goes to the coil packs? I've already checked the engine fuse (mpi) and it's good. Where should I go from here? I desperately need to get this figured out with minimal downtime, as this is my daily driver and wife needs the other. Btw, I've searched and searched and have seen lots of info, but nothing really leading me to what I need to know. I just want to start fresh with info only pertaining to my problem.

Kevin

skater182 · 03-26-2005, 11:56 PM

i remember having a simular problum. try checking the cam angle sensor.

BISHILVR · 03-27-2005, 01:32 AM

broken timing belt is my thoughts.

kevingst · 03-27-2005, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skater182

i remember having a simular problum. try checking the cam angle sensor.

That too, was one of my thoughts. I'm not really sure how I go about checking it. I think I'm supposed to be looking for 5v at two of the pins or something like that, but I'm not sure which ones. I need stone cold facts before I go in just reading wires without knowing exactly what I'm looking for. But now I'm pretty much in the market for a new cas, power transistor, and coil pack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BISHILVR

broken timing belt is my thoughts.

Do you seriously think that after going through all this other trouble, especially with having all this other stuff removed to check it, that I wouldn't have checked out my timing belt?! Come on now... especially with checking timing being part of the troubleshooting process.

skater182 · 03-27-2005, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevingst

That too, was one of my thoughts. I'm not really sure how I go about checking it. I think I'm supposed to be looking for 5v at two of the pins or something like that, but I'm not sure which ones. I need stone cold facts before I go in just reading wires without knowing exactly what I'm looking for. But now I'm pretty much in the market for a new cas, power transistor, and coil pack.

what happend to mine was water got inside it and fried it. Brand new from the dealership they wanted to charge me $650 for it so I just went down to the local junk yard and pulled a new one. However i did not install it so i cant help you there

but good luck
keep us posted

kevingst · 03-27-2005, 10:47 AM

Yea, installation is cake, I just need to get one, gotta mount it, hook it up, and reset timing. Did that when I did all the engine swap. I've found a couple, but nothing local. No junkyards close to here. Closest one is an hour away, and I don't wanna drive up there just to find out that they don't have anything I need.

BISHILVR · 03-27-2005, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevingst

That too, was one of my thoughts. I'm not really sure how I go about checking it. I think I'm supposed to be looking for 5v at two of the pins or something like that, but I'm not sure which ones. I need stone cold facts before I go in just reading wires without knowing exactly what I'm looking for. But now I'm pretty much in the market for a new cas, power transistor, and coil pack.

Do you seriously think that after going through all this other trouble, especially with having all this other stuff removed to check it, that I wouldn't have checked out my timing belt?! Come on now... especially with checking timing being part of the troubleshooting process.

This is coming from a guy that just told us that he has'nt even pulled any of the plugs yet??????. YEAH i seriously doubted that you checked the timing belt, be more specific from now on.

GTM · 03-27-2005, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevingst

Yea, installation is cake, I just need to get one, gotta mount it, hook it up, and reset timing.
...
No junkyards close to here. Closest one is an hour away, and I don't wanna drive up there just to find out that they don't have anything I need.

You didn't mention if you checked for codes?

I'm afraid you are going to have to bite the bullet and make the drive.

Cheers,
GTM

kevingst · 03-27-2005, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BISHILVR

This is coming from a guy that just told us that he has'nt even pulled any of the plugs yet??????. YEAH i seriously doubted that you checked the timing belt, be more specific from now on.

Come on man... immediately following the statement about the plugs was the SPECIFIC statement that I, "Verified no spark from wires to ground." Now, common sense would leave me to believe that if I have no spark getting to the spark plugs...then the spark plugs are the least of my worries. Even my "car dumb" wife figured out that much. Now... you shouldn't come into a thread and automatically assume you're dealing with a newbie. I don't know how much actual hands on you've actually put into your vehicles, but I've had this car for 8 years and have done ALL of the maintenance/modifications myself -minus the ball joint recall and wheel alignments. I'm gonna end the flaming here. Don't flame in my thread anymore!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTM

You didn't mention if you checked for codes?

I'm afraid you are going to have to bite the bullet and make the drive.

Cheers,
GTM

I don't have a cel, but I went ahead and checked with dsmlink just in case. It's not popping any codes. And I think you may be right about the drive. I was just more hoping I could find the parts from someone online. I figured that, as long as the person was honest, I'd have a better chance of getting a good part from them than from an unknown junker.

kevingst · 03-27-2005, 02:46 PM

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong. The engine fusible link (under the hood on the fuse panel) is the mpi fusible link. Where is the mpi relay...on a '95?

Mindslayer · 03-27-2005, 03:01 PM

its ## mpi relay fuse. Check buy thte battery. OR go the V### a pic may be there.

kevingst · 03-27-2005, 03:14 PM

On a 2g... are the FUSE and the RELAY the same thing? This thing apparently has way too many names. I stated in the original post that I checked the mpi (engine) fuse already and it's good to go...thanks for trying. Oh, and the vfaq didn't have anything for me.

GTM · 03-27-2005, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevingst

On a 2g... are the FUSE and the RELAY the same thing? This thing apparently has way too many names. I stated in the original post that I checked the mpi (engine) fuse already and it's good to go...thanks for trying. Oh, and the vfaq didn't have anything for me.

No the fuse and relay are not the same name. I seem to recall that's only 1 of 2 like it on a 1G, whereas there are several of the more common type unless they have been mixed and matched from from the plastic to the can metal cover. My point is you could try swapping out those which have the same P/N and maybe 6-7 pins. I don't have a schematic for either so only drawing from memory.
.....................

You could pull the CAS and try rotating by hand and pin it out with a multi meter to see if it's generating an electric signal... volts and resistance. You only need 1/3rd rotation which you can do with a straight blade screwdriver and a flick of the wrist... it's kinda a 3 handed job unless you have mini alligator clips that can reach in the plug. You mentioned a shift point 4-5 @ 100 mph, I don't know what that translates to in RPM but yours would not be the first I've heard reports of letting go around redline.

I am sure there is somewhere you can probe with a test light to get the coils to fire as part of a troubleshooting diagnostic. Just be careful and have the plug wires off for I've had engines try to start when 1 cylr fired enough to spin the engine, one time almost caught fingers in a V-belt.

Wish I could be more specific, we have 3 Pick Your Part yards in 20-23 miles of me but it takes an hour each way getting to them unless I take my bike.

Cheers,
GTM

kevingst · 03-27-2005, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTM

No the fuse and relay are not the same name. I seem to recall that's only 1 of 2 like it on a 1G, whereas there are several of the more common type unless they have been mixed and matched from from the plastic to the can metal cover. My point is you could try swapping out those which have the same P/N and maybe 6-7 pins. I don't have a schematic for either so only drawing from memory.
.....................

You could pull the CAS and try rotating by hand and pin it out with a multi meter to see if it's generating an electric signal... volts and resistance. You only need 1/3rd rotation which you can do with a straight blade screwdriver and a flick of the wrist... it's kinda a 3 handed job unless you have mini alligator clips that can reach in the plug. You mentioned a shift point 4-5 @ 100 mph, I don't know what that translates to in RPM but yours would not be the first I've heard reports of letting go around redline.

I am sure there is somewhere you can probe with a test light to get the coils to fire as part of a troubleshooting diagnostic. Just be careful and have the plug wires off for I've had engines try to start when 1 cylr fired enough to spin the engine, one time almost caught fingers in a V-belt.

Wish I could be more specific, we have 3 Pick Your Part yards in 20-23 miles of me but it takes an hour each way getting to them unless I take my bike.

Cheers,
GTM

That's kinda what I've figured. I checked the fuse, and it's good. I still can't figure out where in the world the relay is. Through my many searches I saw that on the 1g it was behind the radio around the ecu. I don't know about the 2g's though. Right now it's all pretty much at parade rest. I yanked the coil packs out and took them to work to read them out (need to get my own dig. multimeter), so they're still out of the car. Plus a few other things disconnected so I could get to the coil packs. I used the 1g bracket but kept my 2g coils ( it was a jdm motor, wasn't sure if I could trust the coils), so it was a pain to get out. But nothings in a position to where I can't just hook it back up and check it out. I'm definitely going to try that cas method. Something I've been wanting to do, but wasn't sure what pins to go off of or what voltage/resistance reading to look for. Also there is the connector (triangle 3-pin) that the coil packs hook into. How can I go about checking voltages or whatever there? Right now I just have a test light and an analog multimeter (that sucks). On that connector, the top pin (with the key on) has voltage (don't know how much)...I'm just gonna get a digital meter, this is driving me nuts. Anyway, I'd like to know exactly what to look for on that connector. Oh, and actually I was doing almost 90 in third (shifted @ 6k because the 14b @20psi is all but dead by then), shifted into 4th for a bit ( can't remember if I gave it any gas after that, I want to say that I went ahead and run it up to 100) then once in 5th, coasted to 80, gave it gas and nothing happened.

Thanks for the advice.

GTM · 03-27-2005, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevingst

...
(need to get my own dig. multimeter), so they're still out of the car.
...
Something I've been wanting to do, but wasn't sure what pins to go off of or what voltage/resistance reading to look for. Also there is the connector (triangle 3-pin) that the coil packs hook into. How can I go about checking voltages or whatever there? Right now I just have a test light and an analog multimeter (that sucks). On that connector, the top pin (with the key on) has voltage (don't know how much)...I'm just gonna get a digital meter, this is driving me nuts. Anyway, I'd like to know exactly what to look for on that connector.
...
I went ahead and run it up to 100) then once in 5th, coasted to 80, gave it gas and nothing happened.
Thanks for the advice.

My favorite source Harborfreight.com for throw-away DMMs $3.99 on sale has nothing offered and I don't see anything close to you. They do have free shipping for mail-order for orders over $50. In some respects an analog meter can be advantagous for when set on maybe 1-6 volts you will see the needle attempt to move even if it's an A/C it will attempt to swing more negative against the stop and then bounce upwards. A DMM may only sample once every second which you have no control so it might take a few tries before you establish it's putting something out. As for actual voltage I'll toss out 1-2 volts and probably A/C but it's so short and no current it won't harm anything. Resistance will be a constant number though may fluctuate if the shaft is rotated. The resistance value will be published in a factory manual but you might find it here on DSMtuners since it's been such a problem. I can't tell you how many pins are on the CAS but it shouldn't be hard to sort out.
..................

I try to never back off suddenly on any engine at high RPM for the cams have inertia which can cause chain whip or belt flutter and possibly jump time. This could have happened but I would think you know if you touched valves, however, this sudden RPM change could have caused the CAS to have whipped around and hit the coils inside which generate the signal. I've also read reports of them failing in the driveway so nothing is certain.

Wish I could be more specific for some of your questions, hopefully someone will jump in with some answers.

Cheers,
GTM

kevingst · 03-31-2005, 07:29 PM

You were right GTM, it was the cas. I just now got it running. Now I gotta go put it back together. Thanks for your help, GTM.

GTM · 03-31-2005, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevingst

You were right GTM, it was the cas. I just now got it running. Now I gotta go put it back together. Thanks for your help, GTM.

Outta sight. It's nice to be right once in a while.

It's hard sitting in front of a monitor reading between the lines and pulling rabbits out of an old hat.

Holler if you need some more help.

Cheers,
GTM