destroyed spark plug - engine is toast?

[Tongboy]

my car sputtered and died last night as I was pulling into the rec center. I pushed it into a spot and added gas and all that and I couldn't get it to start.

this morning I go back and pull the plugs to do a compression test on it, start at 4 and pull all the plugs out, when I get to 1 I have to reef on it and instantly know thats my problem cylinder. I get the spark plug out and its just utterly destroyed.

it's smashed in/melted and what I think is the electrode is rammed inside of the park plug maybe 1/8 inch. its totalled.

I know atleast that cylinder is toast but what i'm really wondering: what would have happened to my car to cause this? I was at maybe 2 grand in 1st gear when it happened, hadn't driven the car hard at all, it has full oil and coolant,etc


I'll get some pics when I get home from work, its pretty impressive looking :thumbdown

 

[92awddsm]

Possibly a broken valve or maybe an someone stuck a rock in you ic pipe and it just took a while for it to find its way into the engine. Pull the head and take a look.

 

[vkalloo]

yeah most likely a think the tbelt slipped some teeth and then a valve rammed into the piston and caused that damage......at least thats what happen to me....

 

[HighPsi92GST]

yeah i had a balance belt break and take out my timing belt which caused the valves and pistons to hit smashing the life out of the plugs and bottom of the head, broke some valves off and the broken peices fell into my big 16g turbo which was at full boost destroying that. the turbo had 3 miles on it

was expensive to fix all that stuff

good luck

 

[Tongboy]

pics as promised

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head was rebuilt 3k ago and new timing belt/pullies was done then. 1k before that the BS belt was replaced (yes the new belt skipped 1k after replacement becuase I didn't do the pulleys/tensioner, atleast thats what I can assume)

the rest of the plugs look fine and the timing belt is still intact on the car (I didn't check if it was in time)

 

[steve]

I'd agree with 92awddsm, from that plug it looks like you lost a valve and it went bouncing around.

Steve

 

[Defiant]

Broken/stripped/jumped timing belt, snapped valve head, bouncy-bouncy snap-crackle-crunch.

When you lifted the hood, was there a mass of dollar signs fluttering out, like the bats at sundown from Mammoth Caverns?

Sympathies about your luck.

 

[G-UNIT]

Ouchies

 

[BISHILVR]

Broken/stripped/jumped timing belt, snapped valve head, bouncy-bouncy snap-crackle-crunch.

When you lifted the hood, was there a mass of dollar signs fluttering out, like the bats at sundown from Mammoth Caverns?

Sympathies about your luck.

you've been to mammoth caverns too???

 

[BISHILVR]

the timing belts rarely actually break on the cars, i can almost gaurantee you that the timing is way off because the belt shed some teeth

 

[Tongboy]

so a new twist, I got the head off and after making sure the belt was still intact and aligned (my timing was all aligned all the way around!)

and I broke a valve off on the #1 cylinder and it kind of rattled around inside the cylinder punching a hole in the piston and tearing up my rebuilt head

valves are only 3k old and I got them from machv. nothing else is bent or hurt other then that cylinder.

i'll get pictures tomorrow once the drunk guy upstairs is sober enough to take the pics off his camera.

so yeah, i'm having a hard time deciding if i'm going to do a 2.4 or a normal 2...

 

[GTM]

so a new twist, I got the head off and after making sure the belt was still intact and aligned (my timing was all aligned all the way around!)
and I broke a valve off on the #1 cylinder and it kind of rattled around inside the cylinder punching a hole in the piston and tearing up my rebuilt head
valves are only 3k old and I got them from machv. nothing else is bent or hurt other then that cylinder.
i'll get pictures tomorrow once the drunk guy upstairs is sober enough to take the pics off his camera.
so yeah, i'm having a hard time deciding if i'm going to do a 2.4 or a normal 2...

Hmmm, rather strange that the timing was correct after that trauma. Was there any othere evidence that the remaining valves had touched pistons??

Thinking out loud, when the valve broke it stalled the cam in the perfect overlap so no other valves were fouled by pistons. If this did not foul any other valves then I would think you have a beef with the valve maker/supplier if you have your receipts. Save the pieces in the order they were removed, take lots of pictures.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Littlebeeper]

HEY!! you stole my spark plug!! seriously, i'm going through the same damn thing. I broke a valve off #2 cylinder and my plug looks just like that. the hole in my piston doen't go all the way through though but its pretty close Its weird though, everything was still on time and mine broke off at a little over 2000RPM too everything had been done to the head less than like 2000 miles. wonder where the machine shop got my valves? i'm replacing the 1 piston and slapping everything together. If you leave the engine in and plane to remove the crossmember be sure to hose it down with PB blaster or something to get through the rust...I broke off a bolt and have no idea how to take the rest of it out the front of the radiator support where it bolts up. Maybe i'll just weld the damn thing together unless anyone has any idea?

 

[GTM]

...
I broke off a bolt and have no idea how to take the rest of it out the front of the radiator support where it bolts up. Maybe i'll just weld the damn thing together unless anyone has any idea?

You can't butt weld the bolt and expect it to hold, if there is enough to hold with Vice Grips you might luck out, otherwise you will have to drill. Shoule be plenty of discussions on broken stud or bolt removal.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Tongboy]

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http://www.tongboy.com/images/car/itb1.jpg
http://www.tongboy.com/images/car/itb3.jpg
http://www.tongboy.com/images/car/itb4.jpg
http://www.tongboy.com/images/car/itb5.jpg
http://www.tongboy.com/images/car/itb7.jpg
http://www.tongboy.com/images/car/itb8.jpg

replaced the second picture with the clearer one, added links to the rest of them - hope you don't mind - Tongboy
Too-huge images removed.

 

[GTM]

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Now you know what an engine looks like when it tries to process something that doesn't compress.

Something tells me the engine wasn't idling when it let go. Maybe it punched a hole first and then tumbled around so it had more space and didn't jump time.

I am concerned about all the carbon build up along with the oil in the next cylr, are they all that way?

Were you going to try to salvage the head?

Cheers,
GTM

 

[FunkMasterChipZ]

when it stops snowing ive gotta get my head off because mine wont run either looks like im gonna have some fun.........

 

[Tongboy]

Now you know what an engine looks like when it tries to process something that doesn't compress.

Something tells me the engine wasn't idling when it let go. Maybe it punched a hole first and then tumbled around so it had more space and didn't jump time.

I am concerned about all the carbon build up along with the oil in the next cylr, are they all that way?

Were you going to try to salvage the head?

Cheers,
GTM

I wanted to salvage the head but what you can't see really well in that picture is that there is a 1/4 inch deep gash between the two intake valves that no amount of fixing would make better, most of the stuff could be smoothed out but the gash went all the way up to the seat, I'll get a better idea of the damage when I take those valves out, but the head is toast.

I'm kind of wondering about the carbon buildup as well, the car just doesn't seem to have the miles on the rebuild for that to have happened so fast. and yes all the other cylinders look about the same. I can see blaming the oil spray on the added crankcase pressure from the hole in the #1 creating backpressure on the rings and causing blowby but I can't explain the carbon buildup.

in those pictures some of the valves are cracked open, its the cam laying again them as when its zeroe'd all of them are closed shut including the ones in the #1 cylinder, as well as the broken one.

i've also yet to lower the piston to see how bad the scoring on the walls are. I think i'll wait until I tow the car over to a friends house and pull the engine out of it before I do that

 

[G-UNIT]

 

[91 white tsi]

YOU STOLE MY SPARK PLUG HEAD AND ENGINE
I had a rebuilt head cuz the first one had jumped timing and then new one was built with some racing valves and all the other goodies. it lasted 4.5 miles :thumbdown I put the head on and got it running and let it idle to get the lifters pumped then went around to block normall driving a few times then i hit about 13 psi and it stalled and wouldnt restart. looks the exact same and i cant get it warrented cuz i bought it from the guy who had it built. it was hollow sodium filled valves (so i have been told) and when the heat got to it it caused the hair line crack that had to have already been there to seperate leaving the valve head to bounce around the same. I am guessing someone had dropped the valve and didnt relize that when that happens it can put an invisible stress crack and heat causes expantion and bam it falls off. the worst part was i had just put in a new engine to since the timing belt put holes in 2 pistons. now that engine is done cuz the one piston is trashed. im on my 3rd engine and have put about 350 miles on the car in the 2 years ive owned it. i have 3 trashed heads and two blocks that are getting new forged parts I FEEL YOUR PAIN

 

[Littlebeeper]

DAMN!!! thats way worse than mine. you have to of been booking. mine was at 2000RPM and looks nothing like that piston!! well i wish i could get at the bolt that broke off my crossmember, but it broke where the threads start on the bolt, about 1 inch into the hole!!. its the driverside bolt on the front of the crossmember, didn't even try to take off the rear ones. I'll have to try and find a way. Surprisingly i didn't find much on taking out these particular bolt....i did find 2 threads where it happened to others but no fixes

 

[Defiant]

Tolja.

Still, sorry about it.

 

[Tongboy]

YOU STOLE MY SPARK PLUG HEAD AND ENGINE
I had a rebuilt head cuz the first one had jumped timing and then new one was built with some racing valves and all the other goodies. it lasted 4.5 miles :thumbdown I put the head on and got it running and let it idle to get the lifters pumped then went around to block normall driving a few times then i hit about 13 psi and it stalled and wouldnt restart. looks the exact same and i cant get it warrented cuz i bought it from the guy who had it built. it was hollow sodium filled valves (so i have been told) and when the heat got to it it caused the hair line crack that had to have already been there to seperate leaving the valve head to bounce around the same. I am guessing someone had dropped the valve and didnt relize that when that happens it can put an invisible stress crack and heat causes expantion and bam it falls off. the worst part was i had just put in a new engine to since the timing belt put holes in 2 pistons. now that engine is done cuz the one piston is trashed. im on my 3rd engine and have put about 350 miles on the car in the 2 years ive owned it. i have 3 trashed heads and two blocks that are getting new forged parts I FEEL YOUR PAIN

cheers to having horrible luck with cars :thumbdown

you've got it even worse then me

it let go at about 2k rpm's but what I think really finished it off was the ~20 sec of cranking after I thought i was out of gas

 

[GTM]

I'll have to try and find a way. Surprisingly i didn't find much on taking out these particular bolt....i did find 2 threads where it happened to others but no fixes

Just a quickie, the most important thing you can do is to start right, the second most is to have patience with yourself.

With a sharp punch you mark the exact center of the broken bolt, use a small hammer hit it lightly and see if it's dead center, if not correct until you get it right then a couple good smacks. If you don't have a punch then use a broken drill, broken screwdriver, etc. that you have sharpened to fit.

Look at the size of your punch mark, select a drill bit whos center (not the cutting edges) will fit into the punched dimple. This is your first hole that you will drill so get it right and straight, again select another drill whose center will locate in your pilot hole without wandering all over and tearing threads. Find a nut that is the same size as the broken bolt, select the drill bit closest to passing through the nut and drill the broken part. If you did everything right the sleeve may break free and spin out with the drill bit, if not you will have to use a small pick and collapse the sleeve into the hole and tease it out. Chase the threads with a tap, and you are home free. _USE_ good quality drill bits, especially for the first couple of holes ... they are cheap $1 each maybe... go buy them if in doubt for you don't want to break one now and they need to be sharp. Use WD-40 for all aspects, clean the bit often unles you get a perfect curl while cutting so don't stop, let someone else spray. Support your body you can't be 3 feed away or the drill will wander and you won't have a perfect hole. If it takes an hour then that's what it takes, this is not the time to be in a rush. If you get it done in 15 min. hooray.

I've written this process a half dozen times don't know why it can't be found.

Cheers,
GTM