disappointing dyno

[tobbern]

Well took the car to get it dynoed today because the guy that inspected it said i had to since i had some aftermarket stuff.

First think i did today was install a turboxs manual boostcontroller and set it at 10psi. Seing i have some mods i thought that should put me in the right hp range.. No such luck..

10psi - 176bhp
15psi - 185bhp
17psi - 205bhp
21psi - 205bhp but more NM

What could cause this?? mods are in profile. The guy i bought the car from has a safc2 installed but i haven't adjusted it because i want to understand how it works plus have some sort of logger first. I was supposed to get a wideband o2 reading but the assmunch that owned the dyno hadn't removed the probe from the last car that was at the dyno and he had to close shop as soon as i was finished. If it is running pig rich cuz of the 660cc's could that be whats wrong? I mean it is now slower than stock with all the mods.

I'm just really disappointed...

 

[definitiveno]

Well took the car to get it dynoed today because the guy that inspected it said i had to since i had some aftermarket stuff.

First think i did today was install a turboxs manual boostcontroller and set it at 10psi. Seing i have some mods i thought that should put me in the right hp range.. No such luck..

10psi - 176bhp
15psi - 185bhp
17psi - 205bhp
21psi - 205bhp but more NM

What could cause this?? mods are in profile. The guy i bought the car from has a safc2 installed but i haven't adjusted it because i want to understand how it works plus have some sort of logger first. I was supposed to get a wideband o2 reading but the assmunch that owned the dyno hadn't removed the probe from the last car that was at the dyno and he had to close shop as soon as i was finished. If it is running pig rich cuz of the 660cc's could that be whats wrong? I mean it is now slower than stock with all the mods.

I'm just really disappointed...

Numbers reflect a boost leak

 

[tobbern]

i maybe be wrong but wouldn't a boostleak make the pressure sink...my boostgauge showed a steady pressure at all these boostlevels

 

[oldman]

You're basically running 660s without tunning. Get it tuned and the numbers should be better. Also keep in mind that the dyno numbers are to the wheels where as the stock specification is to the crank, I think.

 

[tobbern]

the guy i bought it from said that the safc2 was "street"tuned...when i looked at the safc the adjustment was all the way too the "-" side i think..

And the bhp was to the crank not the wheels...

i'll get pictures from the dyno readout

 

[DSM90AWD]

the guy i bought it from said that the safc2 was "street"tuned...when i looked at the safc the adjustment was all the way too the "-" side i think..

As an FYI.. Denso 660s flow ~720cc/min on a 2G which has a 43psi base fuel pressure (~660 on a 1G with 37psi Base).

Doing the math ((720-450)/450).. that's 60% more fuel!!!

Unless you have a special S-AFC2 that can subtract 60%.. you're still going to be running rich (and a crappy timing maps to boot).

My suggestion is to either downsize the injectorsor get an custom EPROM/DSMLink to calibrate for your injectors.

And the bhp was to the crank not the wheels...

BHP = Brake Horsepower = HP to the Wheels. Unless you used an engine dyno (e.g. had the engine out of the car) HP is measured at the wheels.

 

[tobbern]

10psi
17psi

i think it means british horse power...

 

[rjgeier]

An a/f measurement would have helped, or a logger.

I suspect that you are knocking and pulling timing.

 

[tobbern]

yea i'm going back to get the wideband readout... how come the only guy with an awd dyno close enough has to be an asshat. :thumbdown

If i can get the safc set-up perfect will i still have problems?

Btw thanks for all the help and replies

Best regards
Tobias

 

[DSM90AWD]

ah-ha.. they did the correction back to engine for you.
Out of curiosity was this a roller dyno (Dynojet) or a brake dyno (Dynapak)?
Did they run it WOT thru 6500RPM or shut down when the BPH figure started down?

Would definitely be helpful if could datalog your timing on each pass. And as mentioned above.. a WB is always a good idea as it'll tell you how far off (in either direction) you are.

 

[tobbern]

not sure if it was dynopack or dynojet..the dyno sheet says MAHA LPS 3000.. hope i get more than stock when i get it tuned though

I think he let off the gas after the hp started dropping.

maha lps 3000

 

[DSM90AWD]

To answer your S-AFC question..

The ECU relies on measured airflow/RPM to determine how much fuel and timing to deliver. By maxing out the (-) compensation% on the S-AFC you are reducing the amount of airflow the ECU uses to determine fuel and timing by that %.

This is fine w.r.t. fuel (though as I said above you may not have enough adjustment for those 660s). But w.r.t. timing.. subtracting out say 50% of the airflow is going to put you on a way more aggressive timing map giving you tons of extra timing advance at the same RPMs (i.e. less airflow = more timing).

This being the case you will be more prone to knock.. and without datalogs it would be hard for you to to see this.

Retarding your base timing via the CAS to 2*BTDC may help a little.. but it's really best getting the ECU calibrated to the injectors

 

[tobbern]

ok so i should get an eprom ecu and chip or dsmlink.. hmm.. in that case i should also upgrade the turbo at the same time.. What would be a good turbo to go with the current mods i have? I think the evo 16g should be fine and it's pretty much bolt-on since i allready have a 6-bolt.

Or i could get some smaller injectors like 550's and see how much hp i can get out of that setup..

either way i'm going to need a logger..whats the best pda for the price?

 

[DSM90AWD]

I'd first get your fuel delt with and then go from there

Check out DSM Chips.
Are you running a '95 ECU or a 1G? I know Jeff now offers chips for both.

 

[tobbern]

I'd first get your fuel delt with and then go from there

Check out DSM Chips.
Are you running a '95 ECU or a 1G? I know Jeff now offers chips for both.

Actually i don't know what ecu i'm running now

I haven't had a chance to take a look at it yet...what do most people that do 6-bolt swaps do? If i have a 1g ecu can i swap it for a 2g eprom ecu?

Either way i doubt it is an eprom ecu. If i go with an eprom ecu and keydiver chip will i even need the safc anymore? edit: just read on the keydiver site that i should have one..

Thing is if i'm gonna get an eprom ecu maybe i should just get dsmlink instead of a chip..

The chip is cheapest offcourse and should work just as good..

argh so many choices

 

[DSM90AWD]

IMO.. if you are going for the the SAFC and EPROM I'd just get the DSMLink as the cost is gonna be pretty close (not to mention easier install).. and the flexibility to tune "on the fly" is much greater.

I've already invested in the SAFC and EPROM (which works well for me).. so unless Daddy gets a big tax refund this year.. will be stay ing with that setup for a while

I assume you have the '95 ECU as I believe the plugs are different btw the 1G and 2G. From what I've read the '95 ECUs are th eonly 2G ECUs with EPROMS so have a good shot at having one.

 

[tobbern]

well i did get around to checking today: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170107

You could say i was pleasantly suprised

When(not if) i order the dsmlink.. I just get a cable,cd with softw. and a chip right?

I wont be having them solder for me since i live xxxmiles away from the states(norway) i will be using a guy that does chipping on vw\audis and solders all day long..

 

[DSM90AWD]

When(not if) i order the dsmlink.. I just get a cable,cd with softw. and a chip right?

^^ Correct. Will just need to get an EPROM Socket and have it soldered in. May also want to order replacement Capaciters (which are prone to leak) and have your electronics guy put them in too.

Now just need either a Laptop or Palm and good to go

 

[tobbern]

i'm using a laptop right now...i got my dads old one when he upgraded and it has the db9 connector too

 

[sweet97]

I just bought a socketed ECU and ordered a keydiver chip, stage 3 for only $115.compared to dsmlink for $565. besides I don't have a laptop and dislike palms.
I may have 660 denso's in my car as I traded a set of FIC's for a set of 660's that came from Buschur who used to sell denso's. Anyone know how to identify a denso? The injectors have no markings as Buschur is secretive about his product. Thanks, Mark

 

[tobbern]

I just bought a socketed ECU and ordered a keydiver chip, stage 3 for only $115.compared to dsmlink for $565. besides I don't have a laptop and dislike palms.
I may have 660 denso's in my car as I traded a set of FIC's for a set of 660's that came from Buschur who used to sell denso's. Anyone know how to identify a denso? The injectors have no markings as Buschur is secretive about his product. Thanks, Mark

The 450$ is worth it for me, if i do something and need a new chip burnt it costs 25$(ems)+20= 45 dollars each time, pluss i have to wait for the chip to get here 2-3days ems and the time it takes to transfer the money 2-3days min. So that means after 10 chips the chips have cost me more and i would have had to wait for 40-60days total instead of just plugging up the laptop. If i was in the states however the costs would be less and downtime not as long.

I am so going to make a Nawz.exe application with "danger to manifold!" flashing and have those f&f nuts around here open the app. when i'm wot :laugh:

 

[DSM90AWD]

Anyone know how to identify a denso? The injectors have no markings as Buschur is secretive about his product. Thanks, Mark

Denso 660s have the P/N 195500-0610 stamped on the plastic ring around the top of the metal injector housing. They come unpainted (Denso) and Painted Black (Greddy).

They are also on of the only pintle-style injectors avail for DSMs. So looking at the business end should see a single hole with a metal pintle sticking out of it. If you see multiple holes then likely a Delphi-style disk injector.

Buschur may be "secretive" about somethings (turbos) but selling ND660s without the appropriate markings would leave me skeptical that they were truely Nippon Denso

 

[tobbern]

besides I don't have a laptop and dislike palms.

Just wondering how you log i forgot to mention that i was going to buy a logging package before i found out my ecu was eprom so i save another 150-200 on logging equipment

so really the dsmlink is great for people that don't have a logging solution already.