Got a Problem-need suggestions

[dsmbob]

I tried to switch the battery in the donor car I have and the car still will not turn over.
I have power inside the car but nothing else. I did change the spark plugs when the battery was changed. Before I did have the car turn over after I tried jump starting the old battery but now there is nothing! Need help fast. Any suggestions on where to look or what to do. Please reply back, this is serious!

 

[ltvarney]

If it won't turn over either the battery does not have good contact with the cables or the starter is seized/bad. Try cleaning the corrosion off the battery terminals if applicable and then tap the starter a few times with something solid, might unseize it if that is the problem. Since all you did was change batteries I am leaning toward it being a connection problem. Even if it's flowing enough energy to light up the interior, it might not be flowing enough to turn the engine over.

 

[johnk]

Get a volt meter on the battery. If you don't even have 11 volts you arent going to get one rotation out of the starter never mind getting it going.

 

[Eclipsed]

I could even be a problem with the alternator. If you are gettin power inside the car it would most likely point to the starter though. Check your starter and get back to us.

 

[forcedfedgsx]

What you need to remember is if you arced the terminals when you jumped the car or charged battery. Check you fuse box in your engine bay, theres a good chance you could have blown a fuse and it wont turnover but you have power. If your unsure about the strength of your battery put it in another car and start it and charge it up.

 

[dsmbob]

Fuses are good! I'll swicth batteries from my car to the donor to see if there is a difference. The "eye" on the battery is lit up so she should be working normally though.

How about the ignition coil? Something to check on here?

 

[johnk]

Does the car just not start or does the engine not even turn over?

 

[DevilSperm]

make sure you check your mpi fuse, lots of that going around right now thats usually the first place i look when i have that problem

 

[dsmbob]

Does the car just not start or does the engine not even turn over?

Nothing happens, engine is dead!

Interior lights and functions do work normally though.

 

[dsmbob]

I saw the post by Turbo monk3y and I had asked about the ignition coil as well?

Is this a place to possibily look if the battery checks out Okay?

Devel Sperm suggested the MPI Fuse-Mine looks fine and intact but I have no means of "checking it" to see if it is the problem. Still working on the battery theroy-weather has been bad here to continue my search.

I too am looking for a spark to start my engine. My spark plugs have been replaced in the meantime!

 

[johnk]

I wouldn't worry about fuel or ignition until you get your starter to turn over. Try running a wire from the battery positive side to the starter to see if it will turn over then.

 

[dsmbob]

Checked the MPI & Ignition fuses and both look like they are intact. I looked at the battery again and noticed the cells are low on water. I think I possibily cooked the battery when I charged it since I need to shake it just to see the green eye. I will swap the battery and test run the car to see if that is the problem.

Next item I will check for is the starter to see if I have electrical current to the engine.

More to report on this confusing problem later in the days ahead.

 

[dsmbob]

I tried to switch the battery in the donor car I have and the car still will not turn over.
I have power inside the car but nothing else. I did change the spark plugs when the battery was changed. Before I did have the car turn over after I tried jump starting the old battery but now there is nothing! Need help fast. Any suggestions on where to look or what to do. Please reply back, this is serious!

This test I performed was a few days ago.

Now I have more update information to report. Here is what I found with the Donor Car!

1. I switched the fuses by the battery over to my car and started my car (which runs fine) and my car started up right away, so I know that all the fuses work properly.

2. I switched the battery from my Laser to the donor Laser (The donor Laser Is the car I am having a problem with.) and I have power to everything inside EXCEPT Power mirrors, Power locks, and Pop-up headlights. I tried to turn the car over and AT FIRST there was nothing, then I learned I forgot to push in the clutch to start it!

Now I tried to start the car after learning of my mistake, and now learned that the car DOES turn over! Problem is the Donor Laser will STILL will not fire up.

3. I check over and regapped my new spark plugs to the average of 0.41" as suggested in the Service Manual and Owners Manual. I tried to fire up the car again and still got the same result.

4. I then tried to jump the battery with my Van hoping that MAYBE the battery was just weak. Still the car did turn over but did NOT fire up. I did notice on the previous attempts
that the car wined huge but from what I can not tell. Also, I did not hear the fuel injectors fire up or feel the car vibrate during start-up.
What is strange to me is that when I tried to jump start the car with my van is when I hear the fuel injectors wanting to fire but not able to fully kick in.

5. After learning of this fact I had a someone (who was a technician or someone who could at least tell me where to look next ) tell me to check the timing belt to see if that had broken. I took the cover off and the belt was fine and I started up the car again to have him look at the belt, the belt and pulleys turn normally so at least I think the timing is okay.

6 I now know that the starter is good, a good battery will help get the car started,
the alternator and fuses are okay. Ignition coil is good. Does that leave me with the injectors or fuel pump to check.

Please reply back A.S.A.P.

 

[johnk]

Was this "donor" car sitting around for a while. I was under the impression that it was the 91 non-turbo laser you had listed on the side. What is the exact car your working on? And the gas could be stale or the fuel filter clogged.

You swapped your fuses to the other car right? So atleast your MPI fuse is good.

Have you checked for spark?

If you get spark and fuel go back to timing the belt may not have broke but it could have skipped, you still won't start....atleast hopefully if it did skip. To check it just take your upper and lower T-belt covers off and bring the motor to TDC(top dead center) and see if the timing marks on ALL the gears line up. 2 Cams at the top Oil pump and Crank at the bottom.
If any of them skipped you should replace your timing belt and tensioner.


Also if your cranking it over for long periods like 5-10 seconds your garage should start to wreek like gas cause your flooding the engine.

 

[dsmbob]

John K. Please follow my answers to your questions below.

Was this "donor" car sitting around for a while?

(A.) Not sure The donor car was sold to me for $200.00 as is. The original owner couldn't get the thing to run so he gave it up to theused car dealer I bought it from.

I was under the impression that it was the 91 non-turbo laser you had listed on the side. What is the exact car your working on?

(A.) I have two Laser's! One Automatic and One Manual transmission. The car with the Manual transmission is the Donor Car which is the car that will not fire. I am trying to start it so I know if the engine is good or not. Otherwise I would care less.

And the gas could be stale or the fuel filter clogged.

(A.) Fuel Filter hey- worth a shot to check and change! Thanks for the idea.

You swapped your fuses to the other car right? So at least your MPI fuse is good.

(A.) Yes I swapped fuses-All checks out good!

Have you checked for spark?

(A.) When I swapped the Battery from the Laser with the Automatic Transmission. At least this is what I was doing, also I regapped the Spark Plugs I replaced when I bought the car.

If you get spark and fuel go back to timing the belt. It may not have broke but it could have skipped, you still won't start....at least hopefully if it did skip. To check it just take your upper and lower T-belt covers off and bring the motor to TDC(top dead center) and see if the timing marks on ALL the gears line up. 2 Cams at the top Oil pump and Crank at the bottom.
If any of them skipped you should replace your timing belt and tensioner.

Also if your cranking it over for long periods like 5-10 seconds your garage should start to wreek like gas cause your flooding the engine.

(A.) I checked the Timing Belt and it is intact-I turned over the engine and the belt did NOT slip. I only had the top cover off to check this, so I can go further by removing the the bottom cover too like you suggest. I am not much good at engine repair so your advice seems difficult for me to follow or attempt. You might have to reply back with instructions on how to set the motor to TDC!
I will try the Fuel filter first since it is the cheapest option to perform.

I get leary when I try to do thing on my own that I have never attempted since I am afraid I may screw up the engine or something, especially on a job like this. I have never taken apart an engine before so for me this IS a challenge. Please reply back.

 

[johnk]

There's an easy trick for setting it to TDC. Take out one of the spark plugs and stick a long screwdriver down there. The turn the crank pulley, I believe it's a half inch. Just stick the end of your socket driver in there and turn till the screwdriver goes up and when it just starts to come back down turn it back a hair. All your gears should line up with there appropriate timing marks then.

If you haven't already found www.vfaq.com this is a great site for info so you can better understand where to start when your trying to fix stuff.

This link has pictures of the timing marks http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html

Is the donor a turbo or NA? the NA should have the wider plug gaps like you did.
Replacing the spark plugs doesn't gurantee you have spark. Try pulling a wire out and put a screwdriver in it then place the driver near something metal and try to start the car you should see spark.

 

[dsmbob]

This seems like a real big job. How much time does this really take? I don 't have all the equipment necessary (miller special tools) to do this at all. I think I would need help on this task.

 

[dsmbob]

Update on the project.

The project unfortunately has stalled again for two reasons.

1-lousy weather - it has rained every off time I have had from my job.

2-my job has kept me very busy. I have had overtime in the last three weeks and can't get back to working on the car's I may not be able to continue if this pace keeps up.

With no extra help to continue the project-I am dead in the water until my boss let's up
on my hours. I have asked for vacation time and was denied for the extra off time. This does not look good right now as far as getting my car running by the end of the summer like I had hoped. If a break comes up-I'll let you know.

 

[dsmbob]

Another year has passsed and it is time to figure out what is the problem with my 1991 Plymouth Laser which will turn over but will STILL not fire.

Things I have found since last year:

The Starter is good.

The MPI and all other fuses are good.

Fuel pump or injectors are still a question for they were not checked.

Replaced Battrery, and Spark plugs (Last year)

Ignition Coil appears to be working since the car turns over. Do not have all the facts on this angle to prove coil is good. Need more Information.

I checked the Service Manual supplied by Mitsubishi/Chrysler, and here is what they suggest in the MASTER TROUBLESHOOOTING SECTION:

PROBABLE CAUSES:

No fuel supply to injectors

Injection system problems

Ignition system problems

Vacuum leaks-from: Purge Control Valve hose, Vacuum Hoses, Intake Manifold, Air Intake Plenum, Throttle Body, EGR Valve.

(Engine Cylinder) Compression too low.


Based on past information given here is it safe to say I should look into the Compression problem FIRST (if one exists). or where Shoud I look next? Fuel Pump, Injectors, Vacuum problem, Intake Manifold, Throttle Body, EGR Valve? Do I check the worst possible scenerio first or last?

Your thoughts are welcome, please reply back A.S.A.P.

 

[dsmbob]

Where is the help here? Still waiting for someone to help me out. Sorry if I seem impatient but this needs to get done soon.

 

[Eclipsed]

Based on past information given here is it safe to say I should look into the Compression problem FIRST (if one exists). or where Shoud I look next? Fuel Pump, Injectors, Vacuum problem, Intake Manifold, Throttle Body, EGR Valve? Do I check the worst possible scenerio first or last?

Your thoughts are welcome, please reply back A.S.A.P.

I always tend to start at the easy then work towards the hard. Most of the time it is easy crap that we over look. Start at fuel then move to spark. Then check out any vacuum leaks/airleaks in vauum hoses/manifold and throttle body. Also check your fuel rail closely. You COULD have a problem there.

Try starting at the fuel then moving along. If nothing still shows, then run a compression test.

There can be quite a few small factors causing your problem. There can be quite a few big factors, ie compression. Start small and work big. It's smarter to just do the easy stuff first rather than test for compression then find out you wasted that hard work because it wasn't the cause.

Like you said, check those possible idea, there isn't THAT much more you can check. Usually with a car turning over but not fireing it is either not enough spark or fuel to keep it running. It COULD be vacuum leaks, but it would have to be a pretty big vacuum leak.

 

[johnk]

I would ignore the boost leaks idea till it's running. The brake booster and the PCV lines are big enough to cause the car not to run but there's still hoses attached to them your problem most likely lies else where still to be found. I would check the fuel and spark. Easiest way to check for fuel is to try and crank it a few times. Then your garage should stink like gas. If not try taking out the plugs and then it should definitely be obvious. You can try an ohm meter on the fuel injectors they should read 2-3 ohms.

If you've got fuel check for spark. Try that trick with the screw driver it will show you which coils are firing. If any aren't firing which ones. Is it a single one or a pair 1-4 or 2-3? Are the wires in ratty condition?

Most important when you checked your timing did all 4 gears line up? And do a compression check and let us know the results. Follow the instructions here http://www.dsmgrrrl.com/FAQs/compression.htm and let us know what the results are. If you come out below 122 forget checking spark and fuel you need a rebuild on your motor. And if your not 100% sure on the timing the compression test answers may not be correct because 1 or 2 teeth off will give low numbers but doesn't neccessarily mean your motor is toast.

 

[Spoolin4Ever]

Try this bro:

http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4457

Read my post here:
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181686